High end trad bows

[whitetailtrail]

Beautiful looking bow! I doubt I could see the target that far, much less hit it.

[Limbwalker]

Lynda, it was probably the coach.

Then go huntin and tell everyone else to stick it

Already have Bob. Great advice.

[Lynda]

Lynda, it was probably the coach.

Yes! Mr. Stonebraker was awesome. He looked at my bow, looked at me, looked down range and said, "aim here". That got me to within 10 feet of the clout, first shot, and the rest is history!

The awesome bow probably helped at least a tad.

[Limbwalker]

I wasn't talking about Rick. LOL!

Glad you had fun with your beautiful bow.

[Lynda]

I wasn't talking about Rick. LOL!

Glad you had fun with your beautiful bow.

Oh, ha! Thanks.

[Selfbowman]

You price a top of the line Bear , Psc , or any of the other big bow makers and you will find that you can go over to Bob Sarrels , David Oaks , Bob Lee , or any of the other custom bow builders and most all their prices are less or equal to the mass produced bows. Small companies do not always mean inferior . When you can over to Bobs for example and shoot maybe25- 30 bows you will find the one that is sweet for you. You go to Cabelos and shoot 3 you may find the one that is sweet for you. I build one ever now and then and I promise you my bows find their homes when the right person shoots it. I have some very old Bear bows that shoot fine but if you want to drive all the Cadillacs at one time go see Bob or someone like him. Just my thinking. Sometimes that is scary though.

[Limbwalker]

No doubt the better bowyers do have some Cadillacs to offer at competitive prices to the new Bear bows. IMO, the new Bear bows are overpriced.

But I'd suggest that folks at least SHOOT a good quality ILF takedown recurve or longbow to have something to compare to before they walk into a custom bowyer's shop.

Reason I say that is you need some kind of benchmark to compare to. For less than $400 - maybe even $300 - you can get a short ILF riser and wood/glass limbs that will shoot better than a LOT of "custom" bows. Even if that's not what you want, it still makes a lot of sense to at least shoot one to see what a decent shooting bow looks and feels like.

If all you got to compare a custom bow to is an old Jerry Hill longbow or Bear Montana or Red Wing Hunter or Samick sage, then yea, any bowyer with a lick of sense can make something that will outshoot those.

But making a beautiful custom bow that will outshoot a decent ILF rig takes a lot more skill. Not many bowyers know how to do that, or can compete with the price or selection of ILF bows that are out there.

[RickBarbee]

My $350 Hoyt Excel ILF with cheap TradTech limbs on it, shoots the same arrow I shoot from my $1200 BW, but shoots them 21fps faster than the BW even thought the Hoyt is 3# less draw weight.

I'm not saying the Widda is a dog, because it's not. It's a great bow, but I wish I had found the Hoyt/TradTech combo first. Would have saved me a lot of cash.

Rick

[Limbwalker]

Rick, I hope you didn't pay $350 for that Excel riser alone! If you mean $350 for the riser and limbs, then that sounds about right.

Folks need to KNOW what they can get - performance wise - from a $350 bow before they go out and drop $600+ on a custom IMO.

I'm not saying don't buy the custom bow. There are a LOT of reasons to want a custom bow that have nothing to do with performance.

I'm just saying be an educated buyer, that's all. Know what a $350 bow is capable of, and then don't accept less than that if you pay 2X as much for some eye candy.

John

[Deb]

You price a top of the line Bear , Psc , or any of the other big bow makers and you will find that you can go over to Bob Sarrels , David Oaks , Bob Lee , or any of the other custom bow builders and most all their prices are less or equal to the mass produced bows. Small companies do not always mean inferior . When you can over to Bobs for example and shoot maybe25- 30 bows you will find the one that is sweet for you. You go to Cabelos and shoot 3 you may find the one that is sweet for you. I build one ever now and then and I promise you my bows find their homes when the right person shoots it. I have some very old Bear bows that shoot fine but if you want to drive all the Cadillacs at one time go see Bob or someone like him. Just my thinking. Sometimes that is scary though.

Don't forget Foley & Horne.

[RickBarbee]

Rick, I hope you didn't pay $350 for that Excel riser alone! If you mean $350 for the riser and limbs, then that sounds about right.

Folks need to KNOW what they can get - performance wise - from a $350 bow before they go out and drop $600+ on a custom IMO.

I'm not saying don't buy the custom bow. There are a LOT of reasons to want a custom bow that have nothing to do with performance.

I'm just saying be an educated buyer, that's all. Know what a $350 bow is capable of, and then don't accept less than that if you pay 2X as much for some eye candy.

John

Riser & limbs combined John, but I didn't even really pay that, since I horse traded for it all. Think I my have only $250 total investment. I was just quoting what the retail price would be close to for the complete rig.

I have one just like it at a lower draw weight for my daughter. Bought the riser used, and bought the limbs new. Total for this one complete, before shipping & tax as $225.

Rick

[Selfbowman]

Rick, I hope you didn't pay $350 for that Excel riser alone! If you mean $350 for the riser and limbs, then that sounds about right.

Folks need to KNOW what they can get - performance wise - from a $350 bow before they go out and drop $600+ on a custom IMO.

I'm not saying don't buy the custom bow. There are a LOT of reasons to want a custom bow that have nothing to do with performance.

I'm just saying be an educated buyer, that's all. Know what a $350 bow is capable of, and then don't accept less than that if you pay 2X as much for some eye candy.

John

Boo ha it is more the monkey than the string or the bow it is tied to most of the time. Calvin Smock beats those ilf bows all the time with his 21st Century long bow. Takes their money also . Speed alone won't put you in the winners circle .
But shoot what you like and have fun. As far as getting what you pay for. A fine handcrafted bow has its value . Is a mans time not worth any thing . Limbwalker
Is your time not worth anything . Some people find value in a fine handcrafted bow verses something coming out of a machine in mass quantities . I love y'all I am done now with this thread. .oh and ya Deb is always right.

[RickBarbee]

Arvin, I think you missed the point.

No one is knocking high end custom.
We love them too.
I have a couple, and want more someday.
Someday I want to get a Sarrels, but I want a new one made for me, and I'll have it eventually.

What we are say is - You can get very high quality & performance without having to break the bank doing it. This is especially important for those folks just starting out, yet wanting to start with something that will shoot up there with the rest of them.

You're right however - it has as much (or more) to do with the monkey pulling the string as anything else.

Rick

[Limbwalker]

Self,

If you had any idea how many traditional bows I've shot, and at what level, you'd understand me and what I'm saying a little better, I think.

I just might know a thing or two about competiton as well... ha, ha.

21st Century are legendary bows for sure. Have won lots of events too, in the right hands. But what do you know about the fellas that created that line? You just might want to check out their "target" credentials.

My point is that there are not too many custom bowyers who really KNOW what a great performing bow should shoot like, and how to build one, and what the benchmark is to compare to. And lots of buyers wander haplessly into bowyer's shops all the time, not knowing any better either.

As for a man's time? I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make... If you want to support a small bowyer, then that's your right. Go for it. I support LOTS of businesses, big and small, with my money. Some even make bows. ha, ha.

As for ILF gear coming "out of a machine in mass quantities" you obviously don't know who built my ILF bow, or how it was built. There is ZERO difference between how my ILF limbs were built and how most "custom" bowyers build their limbs. And if you want to talk about supporting a mom and pop archery brand, then again, you may want to know who you're talking to.

The idea that all target bows and limbs are somehow not hand-crafted is a myth.

[chester12]

Self,

If you had any idea how many traditional bows I've shot, and at what level, you'd understand me and what I'm saying a little better, I think.

I just might know a thing or two about competiton as well... ha, ha.

That might just be the understatement of the year.