AC unit upgrade help

[Rush2Judge]

SFAbowhunter, you obviously have experience in this area but, I am confused about your obvious preference of American Standard over Trane. It is my understanding Trane builds American Standard. Am I missing something?

Found from a recent Consumer search article (June 2016)
Trane, which also makes American Standard
Carrier, which owns Bryant, Payne and Tempstar
Lennox, which owns Ducane, Armstrong, Concord, Allied and AirEase
Rheem, which owns Ruud
Goodman, which makes Amana and Janitrol
York, which makes Coleman and Luxaire
Nortek Global HVAC, which makes Maytag, Westinghouse, Frigidaire, Kelvinator and others

[Spearchunker]

I've had a bad experience with a Trane unit installed in 2009. I'm on my fourth coil. The original one started leaking in May 2014. Two months later the replacement coil sprung a bad leak. This past May the third coil started leaking bad.

It cost me around $800-$900 each time for labor and freon. Trane's customer service sucks.

The installer quit selling Trane units a couple of years ago. They are now installing Daikin units. I was told Daikin is building a huge manufacturing plant near the Woodlands.

My Train Executive is going on 27 years.

[tigerscowboy]

This is reading like a debate over Toyota, GMC, or Ford.

[Charles]

This is reading like a debate over Toyota, GMC, or Ford.

GMC is the better choice

[tigerscowboy]

Agreed if it's the Denalli or diesel. F-150 Limited 4x4 w/Ecoboost if keeping it down to a basic 1/2 ton

[SFAbowhunter]

SFAbowhunter, you obviously have experience in this area but, I am confused about your obvious preference of American Standard over Trane. It is my understanding Trane builds American Standard. Am I missing something?

Found from a recent Consumer search article (June 2016)
Trane, which also makes American Standard
Carrier, which owns Bryant, Payne and Tempstar
Lennox, which owns Ducane, Armstrong, Concord, Allied and AirEase
Rheem, which owns Ruud
Goodman, which makes Amana and Janitrol
York, which makes Coleman and Luxaire
Nortek Global HVAC, which makes Maytag, Westinghouse, Frigidaire, Kelvinator and others

They're both made by Ingersoll Rand. Think of it as Chevy and GMC. American Standard is the GMC where as Trane is the Chevy.

If you're in this industry...try calling over to Trane to find a part for a unit for a customer without any cooling during the heat of summer. You can sit on hold over there for over an hour at times. Call an American Standard distributor and you'll get someone on the line right away, and they'll get you taken care of. Just my .02

[Charles]

Thank you,
I wish I could pick who does the installation but I have a contract with a contractor...
Just trying to see what to get and what it should cost...

You do have a say so in who he uses. Don't let him tell you otherwise.

I replaced mine with a Rheem and used my AC guy. My windows are being installed right now that I contracted. The floors are probably going to be installed by the flooring contractor that I choose.

[Rat]

They all have good points and bad points.

What it comes down to is how well the installing contractor installs the system and then services the system after the sale.

Installation is key, if the duct system is crap it doesn't matter which NAME you put in, it will fail.

The formicary corrosion issue has been concluded with the new all aluminum coils, make SURE that the coil going in is either tinned or all aluminum. This will hedge your bets for not having a leaky coil two years down the road. Yes, this has been a problem, and yes, it was across all manufacturers.

Formicary corrosion has nothing to do with VOCs or the type of refrigerant in the system. It had to do with the type of industrial lubricant being used during manufacturing and solvents used to clean the post processed parts. These formed bonds with the nickel content in the copper alloys causing the formic fissures. The new aluminum alloys have no nickel content and therefor do not suffer from formicary corrosion; tinned coils do contain some nickel but it is greatly reduced when compared to the copper alloys.

I've read probably 20+ studies on this and in the end it comes down to the EPAs regulations requiring the use of low VOC, 0 ODP solvents that did not clean the industrial lubricants off as well as the former solvents (R-11).

But I digress...

Make sure the contractor installs the system, which ever one you choose, to industry best practices. And remember, code (as in "It passed code inspection!") is another word for the minimum allowed by law.

[tigerscowboy]

Well said. Our Trane, Amana, and now Daikin provider/installer agrees with you completely.

I should have stated that my previous experience and my comments were not based on production grade units. We do not install such a unit on our projects and have no experience with them.

[elliscountyhog]

They all have good points and bad points.

What it comes down to is how well the installing contractor installs the system and then services the system after the sale.

Installation is key, if the duct system is crap it doesn't matter which NAME you put in, it will fail

BINGO!

[Rakkasan2187]

There all made by two or three companies. Research a little. Reem are good. I just replaced an 18 yr old one.

[tigerscowboy]

I also have a production level Reem on one of my properties. About 7.5 tons running since 12/2002.

Credit to our Trane/Amana contractor for keeping it going into borrowed time. They've replaced a couple valves, a coil, a fan motor, and corrected the errors in the original duct work.

The right contractor makes a difference.

[Smart]

AC unit upgrade help

My Train Executive is going on 27 years.

Congrats... But unless you changed your coil and are running the new systems your longevity with a Trane is irrelevant to his problems . I'm almost 17 years in with my Trane but I'm hesitant to buy one with all the new coil failures I have read about and had friends experience.

[cam6467]

Don't be fooled by those who would have you believe that you will see a return on your investment in energy savings.

You WILL see lesser energy costs, but if you go with high SEER, 2-stage or variable system, you're looking at a $10k plus expense.

Let's say you save $250 a month on energy with your new AC system, you're looking at 40 months until you see a return at a $10k initial expense. Many companies are charging far more than $10k for a 17+ SEER, 2-stage system (duct work included).

You'd be better off going with a 16 SEER single stage system and spending what you're saving vs the scenario above on door/window upgrades and insulation.

I own an HVAC company out of the Glen Rose area. I'm not a sales gimmick kind of guy, and I honestly believe that these savings stories are sales gimmicks.

If you're planning on staying in your current home for the long haul and have the budget to spend, go ahead and take a shot at that state-of-the-art system. Just remember, the newest and best has more bugs to work out as well!

[tigerscowboy]

Don't be fooled by those who would have you believe that you will see a return on your investment in energy savings.

You WILL see lesser energy costs, but if you go with high SEER, 2-stage or variable system, you're looking at a $10k plus expense.

Let's say you save $250 a month on energy with your new AC system, you're looking at 40 months until you see a return at a $10k initial expense. Many companies are charging far more than $10k for a 17+ SEER, 2-stage system (duct work included).

You'd be better off going with a 16 SEER single stage system and spending what you're saving vs the scenario above on door/window upgrades and insulation.

I own an HVAC company out of the Glen Rose area. I'm not a sales gimmick kind of guy, and I honestly believe that these savings stories are sales gimmicks.

If you're planning on staying in your current home for the long haul and have the budget to spend, go ahead and take a shot at that state-of-the-art system. Just remember, the newest and best has more bugs to work out as well!

I agree with your advice when it applies to people who are comfortable at average to above average temps. Let's just say 76-78* like my parents and their peers.

I disagree when it is applied to people who aren't comfortable unless the temps are 71-74* like us and quite a few of our customers.

One of our customers sets their stat on hold 70* all Spring, Summer, and Fall. They are definitely benefiting from their Trane 19 SEER.