Can we have a hog dog discussion with facts and not emotion?

[BRUTE 23]

With modern trackers they know almost immediately, with the exception of some areas, when a dog crosses the property line. They can see well in advance if the dog is even heading to the property line and try to cut it off.

[LivinADream]

I have hunted hogs with dogs a few times, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE BLAST.


But, I'll echo what has already been said, I simply do not want anyone's animals on my land, as I don't allow my animals on anyone else's land. I have my land for the sole purpose of hunting, it costs me piles of money every year with habitat work, upkeeping tractor/implements, hiring skid steer work, herbicide, taxes etc. there are designated places on my property that I don't even enter (sanctuaries) and I simply don't want anyone or their animals there. the wounded deer crossing fence lines is not even comparable. if I am legally hunting and shoot a deer (that I don't own) on my property and it crosses onto my neighbor's property is not even the same discussion as MY dog chasing a healthy animal across property lines and catching it, or holding/baying it on that property. if a neighbor was to shoot a deer and it end up on my property, 100% of the time if he calls, he is welcome to retrieve his deer. I would expect the same treatment, although if he told me no, i would respect his answer and not go on his property. you have already said you go and retrieve your dogs, and even told the landowners after the fact. that one statement puts you in the same category as the stereotypical hog hunter. the biggest issue, as seen by the replies in this thread is trespassing, and you have admitted to it.

i have to ask, since you started this thread to try to find some open minds, I assume to change their minds on how they feel about hog doggers? (just an assumption) My question is are you open minded enough that this discussion will change your ways? if your dogs cross property lines, will you wait until given permission before you cross, or if not given permission, wait your dogs out to come back to you? will you only hunt bigger properties to try to best ensure your dogs don't cross property lines? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be a ****.

[TX_Hoghunter]

I am completely for letting people run their dogs. My neighbor has outworn his welcome though. A few years ago I put out a bunch of snares. Came back the next day to check them and several near his property line were gone. He was out working his cows when I set them and out in the field when I was checking them so I waved him down. He told me he took them down because he didn’t want his dogs getting in them. All were at least 10’ off his fence. When I asked for them back he said he hung them on the trees they were anchored to, but I did not find any of them. I am a hot tempered person and it has been known to get me into trouble, but I walked away without laying a finger on him. That was in the spring. That fall I had 3 or 4 friends bring their kids for the first weekend of youth season. First thing Saturday morning you could hear the dogs going at daylight. Sounded like they were on the back end of my property. Could hear them for hours zig zagging chasing animals. About 1030 I can hear something running towards my daughter and I and get her ready for a shot. Six dogs chasing a doe came right by us. A few minutes later four guys on horses, including the same neighbor. I tell them to get off the property and he says he’s just looking for his dogs. I tell him to leave once again and point him to the gate. An hour later one of my friends texted me and said he just had four guys on horses come by and they told him they were still looking for the dogs. My brother went and had a talk with them once again and told them to get off the property, in an attempt to save them and me the trouble from me confronting them again. That spring I was out setting snares and noticed an old wire gate they had built into the fence, that I hadn’t paid attention to before. I secured it, drove t posts a foot apart across the gap, and put three no trespassing signs. The next day 40 acres of my property burned to the ground after we left. We had not been in the area that burned at all. That summer I found a hole in the fence where a side by side was coming in. Put a camera on the hole and got the same neighbor on a side by side loaded with dogs along with 4 other side by sides with dogs and people loaded down, entering the property. Had another heated talk with him. This spring I got more pictures of teenagers on horses and hog dogs but no pics of the neighbor to confirm. I’m sure this is why so many people feel so negatively. If it weren’t for the snare and youth weekend situations I would’ve never had a problem with it. And I’d bet almost anything he was the cause of the fire.

Yep that is a bad neighbor for sure. Hate that you are having issues. This is why we only turn the dogs loose on one place during deer season and then only a couple of times when they really start tearing up my buddy's place.

-john

[TX_Hoghunter]

I have hunted hogs with dogs a few times, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE BLAST.


But, I'll echo what has already been said, I simply do not want anyone's animals on my land, as I don't allow my animals on anyone else's land. I have my land for the sole purpose of hunting, it costs me piles of money every year with habitat work, upkeeping tractor/implements, hiring skid steer work, herbicide, taxes etc. there are designated places on my property that I don't even enter (sanctuaries) and I simply don't want anyone or their animals there. the wounded deer crossing fence lines is not even comparable. if I am legally hunting and shoot a deer (that I don't own) on my property and it crosses onto my neighbor's property is not even the same discussion as MY dog chasing a healthy animal across property lines and catching it, or holding/baying it on that property. if a neighbor was to shoot a deer and it end up on my property, 100% of the time if he calls, he is welcome to retrieve his deer. I would expect the same treatment, although if he told me no, i would respect his answer and not go on his property. you have already said you go and retrieve your dogs, and even told the landowners after the fact. that one statement puts you in the same category as the stereotypical hog hunter. the biggest issue, as seen by the replies in this thread is trespassing, and you have admitted to it.

i have to ask, since you started this thread to try to find some open minds, I assume to change their minds on how they feel about hog doggers? (just an assumption) My question is are you open minded enough that this discussion will change your ways? if your dogs cross property lines, will you wait until given permission before you cross, or if not given permission, wait your dogs out to come back to you? will you only hunt bigger properties to try to best ensure your dogs don't cross property lines? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be a ****.

It depends on the situation. For the folks saying just wait on the dogs. Do you realize with my dogs that might be 12 to 24 hours? We are not talking 30 minutes. Second most of the time around here the locals do not mind if I go get my dogs. We have a few city people that have moved in and own 5 to 10 acres. They are the ones that would have an issue. I always try to go to their house to ask but if they are not there I just go get the dogs to put an end to the situation. I have no problem going back later to explain what happened. Like I said in some other responses we have access to a 1,000 acre place that the dogs never seen to get off of. We have also turn loose in the middle of a 25,000 acre place that they ran a hog off of. There are so many variables that come into play. There is no 100% right answer. I really think intend matters here. There are some places that ranchers around here are begging me to hunt but because of the likelihood of getting off of their place I will not go. I would guess 95+% of the time the dogs are where they are supposed to be. If they get off the place I will do my best to end the situation correctly. Also we seldom, seldom hunt during seer season. I am a deer hunter as well and do not want to mess up anyone's hunt.

[DUKFVR]

It depends on the situation. For the folks saying just wait on the dogs. Do you realize with my dogs that might be 12 to 24 hours? We are not talking 30 minutes. Second most of the time around here the locals do not mind if I go get my dogs. We have a few city people that have moved in and own 5 to 10 acres. They are the ones that would have an issue. I always try to go to their house to ask but if they are not there I just go get the dogs to put an end to the situation. I have no problem going back later to explain what happened. Like I said in some other responses we have access to a 1,000 acre place that the dogs never seen to get off of. We have also turn loose in the middle of a 25,000 acre place that they ran a hog off of. There are so many variables that come into play. There is no 100% right answer. I really think intend matters here. There are some places that ranchers around here are begging me to hunt but because of the likelihood of getting off of their place I will not go. I would guess 95+% of the time the dogs are where they are supposed to be. If they get off the place I will do my best to end the situation correctly. Also we seldom, seldom hunt during seer season. I am a deer hunter as well and do not want to mess up anyone's hunt.

Here ya go again, I will do what is necessary to end the situation ,even trespassing. You have pretty well established you are the typiical hog dogger ! It may not be soon, but with country land ownership changing demographics, I see hog dogging being outlawed. Won't bother me a bit & can't come soon enough.

[Hawkpuppy 1]

99% of hog doggers do not care who owns the property, have no respect for other peoples land, and do as they want to with their dogs. That is the problem. Yes, I'm sure there are a few out there that do it all legal, but not many. I personally wish they would just put a stop to it. Hunting hogs with dogs does absolutely nothing to reduce their populations to the point it makes any effect at all, so that argument is 100% invalid in regard to the op's original post about how much damage hogs do. Hogs are here to stay no matter what we do; trapping, helicopters, dogs, general hunting... makes no difference in their populations as a whole. The biggest problem hog dog guys are doing is to continue to give the non-hunters/landowners reason to not like all hunters due to all the trespassing and illegal hunting issues that are a constant.

[Stuck]

It depends on the situation. For the folks saying just wait on the dogs. Do you realize with my dogs that might be 12 to 24 hours? We are not talking 30 minutes. Second most of the time around here the locals do not mind if I go get my dogs. We have a few city people that have moved in and own 5 to 10 acres. They are the ones that would have an issue. I always try to go to their house to ask but if they are not there I just go get the dogs to put an end to the situation. I have no problem going back later to explain what happened. Like I said in some other responses we have access to a 1,000 acre place that the dogs never seen to get off of. We have also turn loose in the middle of a 25,000 acre place that they ran a hog off of. There are so many variables that come into play. There is no 100% right answer. I really think intend matters here. There are some places that ranchers around here are begging me to hunt but because of the likelihood of getting off of their place I will not go. I would guess 95+% of the time the dogs are where they are supposed to be. If they get off the place I will do my best to end the situation correctly. Also we seldom, seldom hunt during seer season. I am a deer hunter as well and do not want to mess up anyone's hunt.

I just read and glanced through this thread for the first time. You asked a simple question and were given the answer. Then you want to compare a wounded deer crossing the fence, cows and other situations for going onto some property, they are not the same or comparable. You even gave us your pedigree in one post telling us how respectable of a being you are all while basically saying you know your dogs are going to cross the fence and you will not wait for them, you are going to retrieve them. There is a 100% right answer. If you can not keep from going on some one else's property don't run the dogs, your hobby should not affect me or my place. Maybe it's just the way I'm reading your posts, but they seem passive aggressive and an attitude not much different than the guys who running dogs that are in your face aggressive. For the record, we have had guys come out and run their dogs on our place, I have no problems with the sport. I don't hunt hogs and would like to see them eliminated but no one running dogs have seem to put a dent in the population.

[LivinADream]

It depends on the situation. For the folks saying just wait on the dogs. 1. Do you realize with my dogs that might be 12 to 24 hours? We are not talking 30 minutes. 2. Second most of the time around here the locals do not mind if I go get my dogs. 3. We have a few city people that have moved in and own 5 to 10 acres. They are the ones that would have an issue. I always try to go to their house to ask 4. but if they are not there I just go get the dogs to put an end to the situation. I have no problem going back later to explain what happened. Like I said in some other responses we have access to a 1,000 acre place that the dogs never seen to get off of. 5. We have also turn loose in the middle of a 25,000 acre place that they ran a hog off of. There are so many variables that come into play. There is no 100% right answer. I really think intend matters here. There are some places that ranchers around here are begging me to hunt but because of the likelihood of getting off of their place I will not go. 6. I would guess 95+% of the time the dogs are where they are supposed to be. If they get off the place I will do my best to end the situation correctly. Also we seldom, 7. seldom hunt during seer season. I am a deer hunter as well and do not want to mess up anyone's hunt.

1. do you realize it took me almost 40 years to have my own place so I don't have to deal with anyone doing something that i don't want done on the property. my $***,*** investment trumps your $*** dog. wait him out, or come check again later until you have permission.
2. hunt their property, or adjoining properties.
3. stay far enough away from their properties that it is impossible for your dog to get on their property.
4. you cant do that. this is the Home problem people have with hog doggers. its spelled out clearly in this thread, amongst 100's of others on the WWW.
5. sounds like you need 26,000
6. this number needs to be 100%. lets change the scenario to 95% i hunt property that i have permission to be on. is that ok? lets say that other 5% is your property, but you're a new city guy that moved in, and now you're the guy that would have an issue. are you now the problem in this scenario, or am I the problem? answer: I would still be the problem.
7.this is irrelevant, the issue is trespassing, regardless of deer's reaction to said trespassing.

[TX_Hoghunter]

LOL....Well after lots of really good responses and discussion it seems that we are taking a turn. That is fine. Here is my last response. Thanks to everyone that took the time to discuss this in a civil and hopefully productive way. To the others that seem to be throwing rocks...well I do not care for hypocrites......Here is my point. I try to keep everything legal. We do not hunt places that we do not have permission to be on. Have the dogs start on large places where we had permission and got off of it? Yes a few times. Have i tried to contact the owners to get permission? yes. Has there been times that contact could not be made and I did retrieve my dogs? yes. Has this ever caused any issues with said land owners? no. Technically did I break a law? yes. Has any land owner ever wanted to go that route? no. Have I notified the land owners once I got good contact info? yes. Now for the part on the hypocrites.....Now look in the mirror real close.....you ever drank a little to much but drove home anyway? Most probably have. Do you speed when driving somewhere? Pretty sure all of US have. The difference is when you bent the law it was fine as long as it did not hurt anyone. All I am saying is maybe, just maybe being a little less judgemental. Maybe walking a mile in the other persons shoes would be the thing to do. Now I will bow out and y/all are free to light me up but please, please look in the mirror first. Hope everyone has a great day and good luck this season.

-john

[Low Fence]

In my core area there are basically 4 groups of hog doggers. In the late 90’s early 2000’s I went at least once with all of them on large property. All are “salt of the earth” guys. I could call any of them this second with a problem and they would be all about helping.

that said…. They all trespassed more times than they didn’t. And to my knowledge never contacted a land owner unless the collar told them they were in someone’s kennel. They are nice guys… but they still outlaws. Speaking only of the ones I know, not making a blanket statement

I have/had a large neighbor, who also has a larger neighbor that had doggers on that property. I’ve kenneled his dogs twice and called his number on collar to come get em. The collar saved the dog’s life but didn’t change the owners morals. All in the name of helping Eid the hogs…….. except for one little issue……. Now I’m shooting Barr hogs with tails and ears marked. They are trespassing, catching, making them bigger…. And turning them loose again. Perfect

I understand your passion for a sport that has a black eye, bowfishing was my life for 20 years, and I don’t even want people to know I did it now. They have become something I don’t want to be associated with anymore and when I look from the outside in I can see clearly the resentment and understand it

[LivinADream]

LOL....Well after lots of really good responses and discussion it seems that we are taking a turn. That is fine. Here is my last response. Thanks to everyone that took the time to discuss this in a civil and hopefully productive way. To the others that seem to be throwing rocks...well I do not care for hypocrites......Here is my point. I try to keep everything legal. We do not hunt places that we do not have permission to be on. Have the dogs start on large places where we had permission and got off of it? Yes a few times. Have i tried to contact the owners to get permission? yes. Has there been times that contact could not be made and I did retrieve my dogs? yes. Has this ever caused any issues with said land owners? no. Technically did I break a law? yes. Has any land owner ever wanted to go that route? no. Have I notified the land owners once I got good contact info? yes. Now for the part on the hypocrites.....Now look in the mirror real close.....you ever drank a little to much but drove home anyway? Most probably have. Do you speed when driving somewhere? Pretty sure all of US have. The difference is when you bent the law it was fine as long as it did not hurt anyone. All I am saying is maybe, just maybe being a little less judgemental. Maybe walking a mile in the other persons shoes would be the thing to do. Now I will bow out and y/all are free to light me up but please, please look in the mirror first. Hope everyone has a great day and good luck this season.

-john

I think you may be directing this towards my last response, at least in part. I'm not judging you, not in the least. I am only responding to your questions and replies as to why hog doggers are frowned upon (topic of the thread). as far as my wrongdoings, driving after having a few to many drinks, speeding, etc. I have, I try not to, I absolutely do not condone it, and I'll be the first to tell you it's wrong. the difference here is that you still say you're going to trespass, and want landowners to be ok with that. this is not me judging you, it is wrong. 100%

[Bisch]

There is no 100% right answer.

There IS a 100% right answer, but you just don’t want to hear it! The 100% right answer is to only let your dogs loose when you know you can keep them on property you have permission to be on. If you can’t keep them on property you have permission to be on, then don’t let them out at all.

Like said above, you are proving you are really no different than all the hog doggers other than being a little more cordial!!!!!

Bisch

[RiverRat1]

LOL....Well after lots of really good responses and discussion it seems that we are taking a turn. That is fine. Here is my last response. Thanks to everyone that took the time to discuss this in a civil and hopefully productive way. To the others that seem to be throwing rocks...well I do not care for hypocrites......Here is my point. I try to keep everything legal. We do not hunt places that we do not have permission to be on. Have the dogs start on large places where we had permission and got off of it? Yes a few times. Have i tried to contact the owners to get permission? yes. Has there been times that contact could not be made and I did retrieve my dogs? yes. Has this ever caused any issues with said land owners? no. Technically did I break a law? yes. Has any land owner ever wanted to go that route? no. Have I notified the land owners once I got good contact info? yes. Now for the part on the hypocrites.....Now look in the mirror real close.....you ever drank a little to much but drove home anyway? Most probably have. Do you speed when driving somewhere? Pretty sure all of US have. The difference is when you bent the law it was fine as long as it did not hurt anyone. All I am saying is maybe, just maybe being a little less judgemental. Maybe walking a mile in the other persons shoes would be the thing to do. Now I will bow out and y/all are free to light me up but please, please look in the mirror first. Hope everyone has a great day and good luck this season.

-john

Responses are still good they are just not what you want to hear and read.
All the other stuff you wrote is simply you trying to say what you're doing is ok. It's not.

Who is responsible for your dogs? Is it 50% you and 50% your dogs? Is it 33% you, 33% dogs, and 33% other landowners? I mean come on you and everyone knows it's 100% you.
So if a hunter knows when he shoots his rifle 95% of the time the bullet stays on his property does that mean he is not responsible for the 5% that go off?

As mentioned it's not my fault you do not have enough land to do the sport you love. Other landowners have zero responsibility to change or accept anything for your sport.
Sorry but that's the way it is.

Bow fishermen have been screwed by people moving in. Hunters also. Lots of sports ruined by population growth.

[Hills of Texas]

Times have changed. Used to be you could head out with a couple coon hounds and hunt all night traveling for miles and people didn't mind. Nowadays, the big properties keep getting cut up and sold off. Lots of new people and just a different mind set in general. Thus type of hunting with dogs has a place in our history but it is steadily declining. I no longer hunt with hounds anymore. It's been years and I often miss it but times change. Hog dogs can be a lot of fun but to many instances of disrespect and image has forced it into a corner. There's still some good guys out there but a lot of them are methed up felons hunting with a knife and don't care about what others have worked for. If you wanted to clean up the sport you'd have to start here.

[Paycheck]

Just to touch on some thing about leases, just because you have a hunting lease does not mean you can control every thing on that lease. If your lease does not say you have exclusive hunting rights for hogs you may not be able to control who does what.

I'll give you two examples.

I use to trap, do NV, and run dogs for farmers. They would pay me to remove hogs. I did not go in during deer season but right before and right after due to harvest and planting times. Yes we did hunt right by feeders but that was per the land owners. The deer hunters did not have a choice in the matter.

Another example is in my cattle leases I have the right to remove hogs that are causing issues for the cattle operation. Things like rooting hay fields or pasture, eating ground feed, etc. One property in particular I lease from an attorney and his hunters originally did not like the idea when I was trapping hogs out. He explained to them they were not given the exclusive rights to control who hog hunts. He retained those rights as the land owners.

Both groups of deer hunters were barking up the wrong tree because the landowners both had extensive damage to their property and did not think the deer hunters were doing as much as they could to prevent that.

I see both sides but as a leasee you need to understand what rights you have and don't have. Some guys that lease our neighbors got in to it with a young man running hogs on that property. The young man had permission from the landowner and it got very heated. They almost ended up in a bind trying to enforce some thing they had no rights to.

A few years ago, my wife and I went to the lease to hunt on opening bow season. She got in her tree stand in the pitch black. As it started getting light enough to see, there was a big hog trap set up not 20 yards from her feeder. I made a thread on here about it. The landowner gave the guy permission to trap. He set the trap up knowing that we bow hunted. Two ladder stands on each side of feeder. He stated that he is a deer hunter also. The problem I have is the lack of consideration from this type of activity. I would never consider this knowing that someone else is hunting the property, landowners permission or not. But that is just me.

As far as hog dogs goes, it's the same thing. How can someone think it is okay to do this with the chance that a dog is going to trespass.