Just wondering what the golden triangle is?

[bsills]

You couldn't get a place in Grayson County unless you knew someone up here, so I wouldn't worry about it. I think I did answer your question, but let's answer it another way. Of the people I know hunting at least 150-200 acres, most of them see a 160 every year or maybe every other year. That's Grayson County. Out west of here, our lease is 3000 acres and we've seen two 160+ deer this year and a few others in the 150 range. I don't really want to talk numbers but it's much cheaper than the number you threw out for South Texas. But you have to understand the bowhunting up here (esp. Grayson) is much harder than south Texas (I've hunted S Tx numerous times) hence the reason I've been hunting here 18 years and have one buck over 160. Archery kill, in an archery-only county. But then again it's been a one buck county for most of that time and I'm usually hunting for 180's, not 160's, or hunting one specific buck with unique characteristics.

What makes the bowhunting in North Texas harder than South Texas?

[mesquitecountry]

What makes the bowhunting in North Texas harder than South Texas?

Because all the acreage surrounding Hagerman has a feeder and a bow stand fifty yards off the boundary 100 yards apart. So many people trying to lure them out.

[Breezy]

There is no way n tx can compete head to head with s tx. I know of nobody that goes from s tx to n tx to hunt but I know alot that do the opposite. Just sayin.

[Breezy]

Because all the acreage surrounding Hagerman has a feeder and a bow stand fifty yards off the boundary 100 yards apart. So many people trying to lure them out.

floods do great!!!

[Grayson]

Aha hahahaha, north Texas toe to toe with South Texas! Hahahaha. Stop it! Haha! Haha! Las Raices kills more big bucks than all of Grayson county! Heck, The king ranch by itself can beat North Texas.

South Texas culls are bigger than North Texas trophies. There's been a 239 killed in Maverick that most will never see, bow kill native free range.

South Texas kills more big deer in one year than the North does in five!

Thanks for the laugh Brock!

Per capita, sure it can. We just don't have the raw deer numbers up here.

I've seen Friedken's buck, it's very impressive. More people have seen it than you think. He and his family have killed some awesome low fence archery deer. How big is their place, again? I'd heard over 100,000 acres but can't confirm that of course.

[Grayson]

What makes the bowhunting in North Texas harder than South Texas?

Low deer numbers and the lack of fences, for the most part.

[mesquitecountry]

Per capita, sure it can. We just don't have the raw deer numbers up here.

I've seen Friedken's buck, it's very impressive. More people have seen it than you think. He and his family have killed some awesome low fence archery deer. How big is their place, again? I'd heard over 100,000 acres but can't confirm that of course.

140,000 I believe. I knew you'd see it. Lawyers always find out info!

To be perfectly honest Brock, you can't deny that just that property alone could possibly kill more 180 class deer than the entire part of the state North of I-10.

[Grayson]

There is no way n tx can compete head to head with s tx. I know of nobody that goes from s tx to n tx to hunt but I know alot that do the opposite. Just sayin.

I can understand that, the hunting is not easy up here.

[Artos]

Wow that is waaaaay down there!!!!

bout a 2+ hour drive northwest for me...


fyi...san antonio is NOT south tx.

[aironeout]

As far as the panhandle area, I don't see places like the Waggoner or the large ranch we have a lease on high fencing in this millineum.

I'm sure a lot of people in the Hill Country and South Texas thought the same thing in the early 1900's but the Y.O. started that change in the 30s. Every year more and more places are going that route. Why? You basically said it. Because of the almighty $$$$. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

You mention the Waggoner Ranch, 535,000ac. Not much need to HF a place that big, kind of like the King. Like mitch said, I would be very interested to know how many 150+ deer they produce per/say 1000ac. Just looking at their website they are more interested in cattle, horses, farming and oil, not one mention of deer on their website. I'm sorry but South Tx. is just made for producing bigger deer, not cattle. It appears that the area where the Waggoner is located is a lot more open country and farmland, much more condusive to producing cattle rather than deer. Open country equals more grazing opportunity during the summer months and the farmland equals more available feed throughout the year and even wheat grazing throughout the winter. Therefore decreasing the total cost per head of cattle vs. so. tx, which is why the majority of the landowners rely on leasing their property for hunting and are able to get top dollar for it because of what the property is capable of producing. Just one of those topics that we are going to have to agree to disagree on.

>E

[Grayson]

140,000 I believe. I knew you'd see it. Lawyers always find out info!

To be perfectly honest Brock, you can't deny that just that property alone could possibly kill more 180 class deer than the entire part of the state North of I-10.

Don't know, never seen it. But I can tell you that with 140,000 contiguous acres, an unlimited food budget and our genetics we would kill deer every bit as big or bigger. It's more impressive to me that we can do it without the acreage. As far as where the deer in this county are killed, I know of at least 3 180s this year and from what I know they were all 10 miles from each other. To my knowledge the Waggoner doesn't feed protein like the S Tx ranches do and everyone knows they kill giants every year over there.

[kyle1974]

Fences don't change genetics. The excuse of high fences being the only reason s tx has big bucks is just not correct.

[Roamer]

Grayson County is a farming county. Hence you get what I like to call the Kansas affect.Lots of protein crops equal bone. I don't know if this exact or not. But it is my theory on the deer from that county.

[Kdog]

Interesting conversation.

What Grayson is describing in North Texas sounds more like where I am from in Wisconsin. I was up there up there last March visiting my family and the home office. I was walking down the hall and noticed a huge set of antlers on one of my coworkers wall. Not a shoulder mount or euro, just a nice the scull plate mounted on the wall. Stopped right away to talk to my coworker about it. He had shot the buck on his in law's farm last fall. I asked him what the deer scored, he did not even know how to measure it. I got a tape measure and it was a 170+buck. He had it at the office because his wife did not like a deer head at her house. Now he sure is not going to shoot a buck like that every year, but they are out there. Most farms in this area are 100-300 acres. A 400 acre farm would be consider pretty big. I would venture to say that nobody is passing up deer that are 4 1/2 years old. Maybe some people will pass up a 3 1/2 year old, but no older. Just think if they had 100,000 plus acres dedicated strictly to growing big bucks. Of course this is not going to happen up there. You can make a lot more money farming than leasing to hunters. Plus the farms are already broken down into smaller acreages.

I did not start hunting until I moved here to Texas about 6 years ago, and have never hunted there....yet. So it is tough for me to really compare Texas where I hunt with Wisconsin. Plus I am not hunting South Texas or north Texas.

[Grayson]

Fences don't change genetics. The excuse of high fences being the only reason s tx has big bucks is just not correct.

Not an "excuse," nor the "only reason." But it is a big one, otherwise the fences wouldn't be there. If you want to talk genetics, check the state P&Y records first.