For those not sure about teachers with CHL

[Shane]

I have a BIL that's a principal. He recently got his CHL, and he and others in his district are hoping to get authorization to carry at school. There are lots of teachers that don't need to touch a gun, of course. But there are enough that are willing and able to do it that could make a huge difference in the safety of kids and teachers alike.

Not every citizen in any line of work needs to have a CHL and carry a weapon. But the knowledge that a few are carrying is a HUGE deterent to crime.

[M-2]

They could shuffle kids to classroom nextdoor. They could bring another teacher into the classroom to stay with the kids while the CHL teacher went after the shooter.

You have exposed the kids in the hall, and shuffling kids is not an instantaneous process, trust me on that. Besides, by the time all this was done, the guy could have already killed 20 kids.

[lesson 101]

Other side of the ranch buddy

Gid'em lol

[Tommyh]

You have exposed the kids in the hall, and shuffling kids is not an instantaneous process, trust me on that. Besides, by the time all this was done, the guy could have already killed 20 kids.

doorwyas between classes also allows for escape during fire and other inclimate weather. see my stuff to BD above.

[Shane]

You have exposed the kids in the hall, and shuffling kids is not an instantaneous process, trust me on that. Besides, by the time all this was done, the guy could have already killed 20 kids.

Like I said, the case by case situation would dictate how to handle it - using common sense.

Would it be better for an armed teacher to huddle under her desk with her students while they listened to shooting and screams from the classroom down the hall and just waited for the shooter to make his way to their room?

[M-2]

doorwyas between classes also allows for escape during fire and other inclimate weather. see my stuff to BD above.

There are a LOT of very old schools in Texas, without those amenities.
I'm not against the (extreme) added expense to re-design or add additional doorways, though.

[Tommyh]

There are a LOT of very old schools in Texas, without those amenities.
I'm not against the (extreme) added expense to re-design or add additional doorways, though.

the bad part comes with the 60s designed "open concept" schools in elementaries still in operation around the state. Short of adding hardened areas in the center of these rooms and removing the libraries there to another location, building outside in the playground would be the only option.


and "if it meant we could save the life of one child" i think the expense would be better spent on safety than locking away law abiding gun owners because they have "hi cap clips". the tax burden for this would be done in a bond issue anyway, with federal dollars to back the rest up. it generate jobs and done in the summer. they dont need to be security strength doors. just a passage way to safety. train the kids with drills and they will do it second nature. same with a teacher and courses like IDPA shoots.

quit thinking on how it WONT work, and focus on how to MAKE IT work. thats all that is being asked!

[Coach W]

If there is one thing I have learned from all this gun talk its that:

The ignore list will sure keep me out of banned camp, this time. now if there was a way it wouldnt show up in quotes.

This message is hidden because ___ is on your ignore list Is way better than reading the same old non sense over and over. Yall should try it.

[M-2]

Like I said, the case by case situation would dictate how to handle it - using common sense.

Would it be better for an armed teacher to huddle under her desk with her students while they listened to shooting and screams from the classroom down the hall and just waited for the shooter to make his way to their room?

Lots of gun drills will be necessary to ingrain the "best thing to do" in every possible scenario (like coming back from recess, lunch or restroom breaks, etc.), then (try to) factor in the panic responses. I suppose the armed teacher could leave her panicked kids in the classroom and take the time to lock the door on her way out to confront the shooter. Or stay at the locked classroom entrance with gun drawn and wait to blow the perp to hell when he shoots out the lock.
As I wrote above, teachers in our district are overwhelmingly NOT in favor of carrying, for many reasons. If other's want to, and the district approves, I guess that's their right. But these CHL holders had BETTER receive extensive and regular training and get paid for the time to do it.

[Shane]

Lots of gun drills will be necessary to ingrain the "best thing to do" in every possible scenario (like coming back from recess, lunch or restroom breaks, etc.), then (try to) factor in the panic responses. I suppose the armed teacher could leave her panicked kids in the classroom and take the time to lock the door on her way out to confront the shooter. Or stay at the locked classroom entrance with gun drawn and wait to blow the perp to hell when he shoots out the lock.
As I wrote above, teachers in our district are overwhelmingly NOT in favor of carrying, for many reasons. If other's want to, and the district approves, I guess that's their right. But these CHL holders had BETTER receive extensive and regular training and get paid for the time to do it.

Agreed. Most teachers DON'T need to carry a gun. But there are several that can handle it that should. The ones with common sense understand that they're in FAR more danger as sitting ducks in a gun-free zone than they'd ever be if there were a couple of their co-workers who were armed and could protect them.

[BowDude]

I have a strong opinion on this - pro...

I really don't want to share my hardcore opinion - kind of like the presidential debates, everyone's mind is already made up on which side of the fence...

those teachers in Connecticut had no chance whatsoever - plus Conn has some of the strictest gun laws in the US.... All I ask, is give our administrators a chance to avert a situation like in Conn or Colorado... They will never have a chance if they don't have the opportunity to be able to help their campuses.. Sure, train them more than a regular CHL class and give those that want to have a chance, have it.

That's all I have to say about that....

[iamntxhunter]

I worked in a Texas public school for 12 years.
I saw a former co-worker at the grocery store this past weekend, and asked her what the buzz was from other teachers.
She said they do not want to carry in school. They have enough to do, doing their regular job. She agrees with this.
This particular teacher, BTW, is very, very right wing and pro 2nd Amendment

M2 could you please provide a link to this.

Just messing with you.

[Shane]

Training on how to handle various scenarios is important, but that's not the main point of having armed teachers and administrators in the school. The point is that if there were a few armed teachers and administrators in the school, then the liklihood of having an active shooter situation to deal with would drop like a rock. The deterent aspect of it is the main point.

[Tommyh]

M2 could you please provide a link to this.

Just messing with you.

thats just wrong

[tvc184]

It sounds like you had already made up your mind against teachers with guns and tried to figure out a way to justify your beliefs. It is great that you are against it as everyone is entitled to an opinion. But.........

A few considerations:

1) Aside from first responders, teachers have one of the most high stress jobs there is. Teachers are only human. Most strive to be the best they can be, but we still hear about teachers having sex with students. Nobody is infallible. We think that perhaps all teachers get into teaching strictly to help kids learn, but I have met some very poor examples of this is teachers. High stress means that perhaps teachers aren't the best suited for carrying guns.

I guess it depends on if you look at a glass as haf empty or half full. If a teacher is already used to dealing with high stress, maybe more than some other jobs, isn't that person better equipped to handle a high stress situation? After all, they are more experienced that a stock boy at a grocery store than is only worried about not putting cans on top of the eggs. I think that in some of the shootings it has been shown that the teachers both male and female have responded probably better than others and gone after the attacker while unarmed themselves and some have been called heroes due to their actions.

So they have too much stress to perform under the pressure of a critical incident? I think some of the previous incidents have shown quite the opposite. Teachers might actually be a better person (if the teacher is willing) to respond than the average person on the street.

2) In a situation such as a public school I would think that there are going to be parents who are lawsuit happy. "My child is scared her teacher has a gun!" "I want 5 million dollars for her therapy." It's a sad but true reality.

Yeah, and in Sandy Hook there are lawsuits pending for not protecting children. Face it, the vulture lawyers will be swarming no matter what stance you take. In any case, why even let the child know tha the teacher has a firearm? The most important thing and deterrent about a concealed firearm is that no one knows you have it. Make it a policy that you don't tell and don't show.

3) I have no statistics on this but I would say in my experience that aside from PE and coaches, probably there are 95% female teachers to 5% male. What percentage of CHL holders are female? I'm willing to bet it is scewed heavily to the male side. Many women don't want to carry. Unless they are forced to, many would simply refuse. So, a shooter would have a high likelihood of hitting a room with no protection from CHL.

So make it where male teachers can carry and females can't.

Realistically, there are many women soldiers, Marines, police officers and fire fighters. Trying to divide them up by sex seems futile at best. Again, if they don't want to carry, don't carry. Why take the option away due to percentages?

4) Many, though not all females hate to carry anything on their hip. My wife refuses to even have a cell phone on her hip. It goes in a purse. I would NOT feel good about a gun in a purse hanging from a chair where it could be taken when her back is turned. A safe in the corner might be an option, but there are issues with this as well.

All options have issues including not having a gun on the school grounds when it happens. Because your wife doesn't like a gun on the hip means nothing unless we are only talking about her carrying. In that case, she needs to find another place to carry and keep it concealed or don't carry.

5) Okay, lets say only 1 in 10 teachers has a gun. Suddenly they hear gunfire from down the hall. Do they leave their kids unprotected to try and protect the other teacher's kids? Or, do they stay with their kids? If the latter, then even something like Sandy Hook could happen again.

So let's not allow 10% of the rooms to be protected because they all aren't? That also means that there is a 1 in 10 chance that the shooter picks the wrong room and it ends right there. That seems like a lot better odds than no one armed.

6) Would just anyone with a CHL be allowed to carry? I would think more intensive training would be necessary given that most CHL classes offer NOTHING on true self defense situations.

I don't even think they need a CHL if they are going to carry on school grounds only. Just like a store owner/manager can carry on his property without a CHL. What might be needed is a basic firearms course with maybe some tactial aspects. I say put any rules you want on it. Rather than look at reason to not allow teachers to carry, why not put rules in place that overcome your fears.

I carry an AR-15 on duty. I have just started my 30th year as a police officer. I have a FBI firearms instructor certificate, twice a year teach firearms at the police academy including tactical shooting, spent 10 years on SWAT and was machine gun qualified (I carried a full auto Galil in .223). So when I wanted to carry an AR on duty, guess what? I had to go through a 40 hour tactical patrol rifle school. From ranges up to 100 yards we shoot a timed 50 round course with running, reloads, clearing malfunctions and all rounds have to be on target. One off the silhouette and you fail your qual course. The point is, our chief decided about 8 years ago to allow AR's on patrol but put in a policy that we had to go to the patrol rifle school in order to carry and be able to annually do a fairly hard qual course. My almost three decades of experience including being an instructor myself did not matter. Why not then require some kind of standard for teachers if that is the hangup? I don't care if they have a CHL or not. They have to go through a certain amount of dedicated training and get certified just to have the option to carry. Again, if they don't want to, great. Why deny others the option and a district can put whatever restrictions they want on it.

I would think an armed guard or two would be better given that they can be free of the burden of having their own class to protect. They could be better trained and better equipped.

Count me as against teachers carrying.

Todd

Armed guards? Okay, are we talking trained police officers (and even that is debatable since many officers have only gone through the basic academy and no other tactical training) or are we talking "guards" like licensed security officers? You talk about a teacher's lack of training but to legally be an armed guard (I think they call them "commissioned") in Texas it takes very little firearms training and it just covers basics. Unless something has changed, they don't cover tactical situations, active shooter classes or anything close to a real shooting situation. They cover a basic firearms function and fairly easy qual course. So (there's that word), what kind of "guard" are we talking about and will this guard be any better equipped to handle an active shooter better than a well trained teacher?

Of course, we can put the same rules in for guards to pass a more extensive course but we can do the same for teachers.

Here is what we have, you are against teachers carrying. No further explanation needed (but it is interesting). Basing it on your wife doesn't like stuff on her hip, more women are teachers, at this moment they don't have enough training and they already have stress on the job seems like a stretch in my opinion to deny them the right to self defense or defense of their students.