For those not sure about teachers with CHL

[krisw]

What are your concerns? Other than stray fire? How does that differ from any other person that has a CHL and carries in public? From a liability standpoint, the schools will have to require training and evaluations.

I know for some reason, a lot of people dont believe that anyone other than police should carry. They believe they are better trained. But I know of more than a few officers that dont shoot on a regular basis or even other than to qualify.

So, whats the fear of mere mortals carrying?

[Speedgoat]

Other side of the ranch buddy

[41Chevy]

If they get some real training. CHL class does not train shooters. They give a basic shooting test.

[krisw]

I started to post this there. Is there a thread i missed over there? Because while this is firearm related, I consider it to be more about school issues.

I agree the chl test should be better.

[BoneDigger]

A few considerations:

1) Aside from first responders, teachers have one of the most high stress jobs there is. Teachers are only human. Most strive to be the best they can be, but we still hear about teachers having sex with students. Nobody is infallible. We think that perhaps all teachers get into teaching strictly to help kids learn, but I have met some very poor examples of this is teachers. High stress means that perhaps teachers aren't the best suited for carrying guns.

2) In a situation such as a public school I would think that there are going to be parents who are lawsuit happy. "My child is scared her teacher has a gun!" "I want 5 million dollars for her therapy." It's a sad but true reality.

3) I have no statistics on this but I would say in my experience that aside from PE and coaches, probably there are 95% female teachers to 5% male. What percentage of CHL holders are female? I'm willing to bet it is scewed heavily to the male side. Many women don't want to carry. Unless they are forced to, many would simply refuse. So, a shooter would have a high likelihood of hitting a room with no protection from CHL.

4) Many, though not all females hate to carry anything on their hip. My wife refuses to even have a cell phone on her hip. It goes in a purse. I would NOT feel good about a gun in a purse hanging from a chair where it could be taken when her back is turned. A safe in the corner might be an option, but there are issues with this as well.

5) Okay, lets say only 1 in 10 teachers has a gun. Suddenly they hear gunfire from down the hall. Do they leave their kids unprotected to try and protect the other teacher's kids? Or, do they stay with their kids? If the latter, then even something like Sandy Hook could happen again.

6) Would just anyone with a CHL be allowed to carry? I would think more intensive training would be necessary given that most CHL classes offer NOTHING on true self defense situations.

I would think an armed guard or two would be better given that they can be free of the burden of having their own class to protect. They could be better trained and better equipped.

Count me as against teachers carrying.

Todd

[Boomer57]

I would rather have 10-15 people in the school building carrying than only one person with a gun and that person doing all the shooting for 15 minutes before officers get there.
Yes there is always a risk of a discharge, just like anywhere in public, but even that would be only one bullet, not 20-30. It would have to be carried on their person, not in a briefcase or put in a drawer even a locked drawer, unless it was a secured heavy metal locker.
These are the first things that come to my mind.

[Coach W]

Why ask all the questions and then say you are against it?

Seems you could have saved yourself some time and just wrote :
Against.
Todd

As you already have your mind made up, based upon the facts..... in your mind.

[BoneDigger]

Why ask all the questions and then say you are against it?

Seems you could have saved yourself some time and just wrote :
Against.
Todd

As you already have your mind made up, based upon the facts..... in your mind.

I think this is a discussion board. He asked for opinions. I didn't see it as a poll.

Todd

[Boomer57]

Another thought... Dont allow teachers who have no previous firearms experiance to carry in schools. School is not a place I want a newbie to carry. CHL only means you had a short course on the law not on handling weapons.

[Humper]

A few considerations:

1) Aside from first responders, teachers have one of the most high stress jobs there is. Teachers are only human. Most strive to be the best they can be, but we still hear about teachers having sex with students. Nobody is infallible. We think that perhaps all teachers get into teaching strictly to help kids learn, but I have met some very poor examples of this is teachers. High stress means that perhaps teachers aren't the best suited for carrying guns.

2) In a situation such as a public school I would think that there are going to be parents who are lawsuit happy. "My child is scared her teacher has a gun!" "I want 5 million dollars for her therapy." It's a sad but true reality.

3) I have no statistics on this but I would say in my experience that aside from PE and coaches, probably there are 95% female teachers to 5% male. What percentage of CHL holders are female? I'm willing to bet it is scewed heavily to the male side. Many women don't want to carry. Unless they are forced to, many would simply refuse. So, a shooter would have a high likelihood of hitting a room with no protection from CHL.

4) Many, though not all females hate to carry anything on their hip. My wife refuses to even have a cell phone on her hip. It goes in a purse. I would NOT feel good about a gun in a purse hanging from a chair where it could be taken when her back is turned. A safe in the corner might be an option, but there are issues with this as well.

5) Okay, lets say only 1 in 10 teachers has a gun. Suddenly they hear gunfire from down the hall. Do they leave their kids unprotected to try and protect the other teacher's kids? Or, do they stay with their kids? If the latter, then even something like Sandy Hook could happen again.

6) Would just anyone with a CHL be allowed to carry? I would think more intensive training would be necessary given that most CHL classes offer NOTHING on true self defense situations.

I would think an armed guard or two would be better given that they can be free of the burden of having their own class to protect. They could be better trained and better equipped.

Count me as against teachers carrying.

Todd

I'm with this guy.

[M-2]

I worked in a Texas public school for 12 years.
I saw a former co-worker at the grocery store this past weekend, and asked her what the buzz was from other teachers.
She said they do not want to carry in school. They have enough to do, doing their regular job. She agrees with this.
This particular teacher, BTW, is very, very right wing and pro 2nd Amendment

[Shane]

A few considerations:

1) Aside from first responders, teachers have one of the most high stress jobs there is. Teachers are only human. Most strive to be the best they can be, but we still hear about teachers having sex with students. Nobody is infallible. We think that perhaps all teachers get into teaching strictly to help kids learn, but I have met some very poor examples of this is teachers. High stress means that perhaps teachers aren't the best suited for carrying guns.

Cops have a higher stress job than teachers do, and they carry guns safely - after proper training and evaluation. I wouldn't open it up to any teacher that wants to bring a gun to school. But if it's open to teachers with CHLs that have been screened and trained properly, then I'm all for it. Way better than gun-free zones that do nothing to protect anybody and only serve to create helpless victims.

2) In a situation such as a public school I would think that there are going to be parents who are lawsuit happy. "My child is scared her teacher has a gun!" "I want 5 million dollars for her therapy." It's a sad but true reality.

Not as big of a liability concern as having kids hurt and killed due to lack of proper protection. Ambulance chasers can and will file a suit for just about anything, but it doesn't mean they will collect. Schools get threatened with lawsuits just about every day by one unhappy parent or another. Few of the threats go anywhere or have any merit. I wouldn't be too worried about that one too much.

3) I have no statistics on this but I would say in my experience that aside from PE and coaches, probably there are 95% female teachers to 5% male. What percentage of CHL holders are female? I'm willing to bet it is scewed heavily to the male side. Many women don't want to carry. Unless they are forced to, many would simply refuse. So, a shooter would have a high likelihood of hitting a room with no protection from CHL.

True, perhaps. But if Mr. Nutjob Coward knows that there are likely to be a couple of people at the school that are armed, he's going to be much less likely to show up at a school looking for defenseless victims to shoot. In almost every instance, these nutjobs shoot themselves as soon as they know that there is someone with a gun coming their way. They rarely get into shootouts. They want to shoot unarmed victims and then kill themselves before they have to face any real threat. If they know a real threat is already there, most of them won't show up to begin with. That's why they go to schools or movie theatres with 30.06 signs rather than gun shows.

4) Many, though not all females hate to carry anything on their hip. My wife refuses to even have a cell phone on her hip. It goes in a purse. I would NOT feel good about a gun in a purse hanging from a chair where it could be taken when her back is turned. A safe in the corner might be an option, but there are issues with this as well.

Excellent point. I would hope that every school district had a rule against keeping a weapon anywhere other than on a CHL holder's person. Only people without wardrobe conflicts need apply for the program.

5) Okay, lets say only 1 in 10 teachers has a gun. Suddenly they hear gunfire from down the hall. Do they leave their kids unprotected to try and protect the other teacher's kids? Or, do they stay with their kids? If the latter, then even something like Sandy Hook could happen again.

Case by case scenarios would have to dictate. The folks with guns need to get to the shooter ASAP, and the kids don't need to be left alone. They could shuffle kids to classroom nextdoor. They could bring another teacher into the classroom to stay with the kids while the CHL teacher went after the shooter. School employees other than those in classrooms could have weapons and be more free to respond instantly, etc.... Again, the knowledge that there are armed people in the school will serve as a great deterent, and the number of these instances will most likely drop dramatically anyway.

6) Would just anyone with a CHL be allowed to carry? I would think more intensive training would be necessary given that most CHL classes offer NOTHING on true self defense situations.

I would think an armed guard or two would be better given that they can be free of the burden of having their own class to protect. They could be better trained and better equipped.

Count me as against teachers carrying.

Todd

Armed guards would be great too. Budgets for that added payroll and expense are going to be the biggest hurdle. But if an ISD can afford to put a guard or two on every campus, then that would be wonderful.

[TheCracker]

bottom line, you can throw out hypothetical after hypothetical all day. Just like everyone that was against CHL to begin with did back when it first started.

I think that ANYONE with a licence should be able tp carry in a school. Parents, esp teacher, administrators or even visitors. I do agree however that female teachers should be required to keep it on their person and not in a purse though.

The FACT is that anyone that wants to bring a gun into the school to commit a crime is going to anyway. All the Ludicrous signs and laws banning concealed carry in a school do is stop law abiding people from being able to defend themselves when criminals decide to do bad things.

The sky is not falling and all of these terrible things would not happen any more than they happen with people carrying in public. How often do you hear of any of these "what if" hystieria happening on general carry???????

[Tommyh]

A few considerations:

1) Aside from first responders, teachers have one of the most high stress jobs there is. Teachers are only human. Most strive to be the best they can be, but we still hear about teachers having sex with students. Nobody is infallible. We think that perhaps all teachers get into teaching strictly to help kids learn, but I have met some very poor examples of this is teachers. High stress means that perhaps teachers aren't the best suited for carrying guns.

change teachers to women here and i think your point is made based on your assessment of ratios below. its funny that there are females in other stressful environments with different types of holsters carrying just fine on a daily basis.

2) In a situation such as a public school I would think that there are going to be parents who are lawsuit happy. "My child is scared her teacher has a gun!" "I want 5 million dollars for her therapy." It's a sad but true reality.

"if we can save just one child, i think we ought to look at taking that step"

3) I have no statistics on this but I would say in my experience that aside from PE and coaches, probably there are 95% female teachers to 5% male. What percentage of CHL holders are female? I'm willing to bet it is scewed heavily to the male side. Many women don't want to carry. Unless they are forced to, many would simply refuse. So, a shooter would have a high likelihood of hitting a room with no protection from CHL.

additional training would need to be needed, but in case you missed it, there were a whole slough of teachers getting free CHL classes since the shooting. since most teachers are female, i think this is outdated male thought logic .

4) Many, though not all females hate to carry anything on their hip. My wife refuses to even have a cell phone on her hip. It goes in a purse. I would NOT feel good about a gun in a purse hanging from a chair where it could be taken when her back is turned. A safe in the corner might be an option, but there are issues with this as well.

many different style holsters, and your annalogy of women being sloppy and leaving guns around is almost as insulting as saying women can't handle stress.

5) Okay, lets say only 1 in 10 teachers has a gun. Suddenly they hear gunfire from down the hall. Do they leave their kids unprotected to try and protect the other teacher's kids? Or, do they stay with their kids? If the latter, then even something like Sandy Hook could happen again.

training training training. how about add a doorway between classes to allow students to huddle in bigger groups for better protection? whats the difference between 25 students and 50 students in one room if a teacher has the ability to shoot back if and when the bad guy comes into the congregated room? teachers stay with students, and more firepower going downrange. not to mention less chance of collateral damage with students in this fashion! win/win!

6) Would just anyone with a CHL be allowed to carry? I would think more intensive training would be necessary given that most CHL classes offer NOTHING on true self defense situations.

I would think an armed guard or two would be better given that they can be free of the burden of having their own class to protect. They could be better trained and better equipped.

Count me as against teachers carrying.

Todd

whats the difference between one armed guard with little training over a CHL holder? it almost sounds like teachers are made out to be waifs with no ability to handle life or protect anything but the food trough at lunch time. theyre a bunch of pansies who can't be bothered to try to learn to protect themselves, and frankly, its males saying this. how do you think this comes across to women?

if the superintendent says a CHL is all thats needed, then thats all it will take to get a gun in the class. dont like it, ask for more training, either tax payer funded, or personal expense with a tax credit.

[Coach W]

I think this is a discussion board. He asked for opinions. I didn't see it as a poll.

Todd

I had just started to do the same thing that Shane and Tommy did and answer your questions with logical answers... Like I thought you were trying to actually understand both sides of the argument.

Then I came to you last sentence where your mind was made up So I decided I wouldn't argue as there was no point.

No Poll. Continue to "discuss"