Inferior genetics?

[Gladesgator]

I had a small 3 pt and a nice 7 pt as yearlings on my place, as 2yr olds both were 130 class 8 pts, this year as 3yr olds both are 140-150 class 10pts.
If, you had seen them side by side as yearlings you would not thought it possible.
TPWD, I believe put out the spike tags to appease folks that just want to shoot deer, the main strategy of ARs is to increase the age structure of the herd. They are willing to lose some spikes to achieve that goal.
I would let him walk.

[Split Arrow]

100% walk for the next three or four years if it were up to me.

[TXAG14]

walk

[Silver 1]

Looks like he is gonna walk.

[Chance Love]

I used to be on the "kill every spike" train, but luckily I got off. We haven't shot a spike on my lease in 7 years, and we have a track record of trophies that I am (tooting my own horn here) proud of. Lots of my buddies down south stopped killing spikes years ago also. Everyone is happy with the results.

99.99% of the spikes you see will be 1.5 years old. In my lifetime I think I have seen 2 spikes on the hoof that were older. And I've seen a LOT of deer. If they are 2.5+ then by all means, start chunking lead.

X2. He should fork by 1.5. That's why the state put the tag for spikes on the license.

This is interesting to me. What should his horns look like before 1.5? More than a nub?

[super_dave]

I used to be on the "kill every spike" train, but luckily I got off. We haven't shot a spike on my lease in 7 years, and we have a track record of trophies that I am (tooting my own horn here) proud of. Lots of my buddies down south stopped killing spikes years ago also. Everyone is happy with the results.

99.99% of the spikes you see will be 1.5 years old. In my lifetime I think I have seen 2 spikes on the hoof that were older. And I've seen a LOT of deer. If they are 2.5+ then by all means, start chunking lead.



This is interesting to me. What should his horns look like before 1.5? More than a nub?

Without nutrition, a nub the first fall he's alive. The next year I think he should fork.
With nutrition, he would be a nub or spike the first fall. The next year he would be a 6 or 8.
When I hunted foster ranch last fall I was privledged to see a huge age range of deer in one spot. All very healthy and protein fed deer. Some of the fawn bucks had spikes, but NONE of the yearlings were spikes. This was a highly managed deer heard, and because of the structure an health of the heard I assumed it to be a pretty good model. Foster was a breeder, so I trust him

[Chance Love]

Without nutrition, a nub the first fall he's alive. The next year I think he should fork.
With nutrition, he would be a nub or spike the first fall. The next year he would be a 6 or 8.
When I hunted foster ranch last fall I was privledged to see a huge age range of deer in one spot. All very healthy and protein fed deer. Some of the fawn bucks had spikes, but NONE of the yearlings were spikes. This was a highly managed deer heard, and because of the structure an health of the heard I assumed it to be a pretty good model. Foster was a breeder, so I trust him

My response was a little tongue-in-cheek because generally speaking roughly 100% of the time a bucks first set of horns is at 1.5. The only buck fawns I have EVER seen with actual horns were tiny spikes, like an inch +-. I run into quite a few breeders, and not ONE has ever subscribed to the "kill all spikes" theory. In fact, after to talking to so many breeders years ago, that is the reason I stopped shooting spikes. Same with all the guys I know down south.

[TX_Hoghunter]

Without nutrition, a nub the first fall he's alive. The next year I think he should fork.
With nutrition, he would be a nub or spike the first fall. The next year he would be a 6 or 8.
When I hunted foster ranch last fall I was privledged to see a huge age range of deer in one spot. All very healthy and protein fed deer. Some of the fawn bucks had spikes, but NONE of the yearlings were spikes. This was a highly managed deer heard, and because of the structure an health of the heard I assumed it to be a pretty good model. Foster was a breeder, so I trust him

You logic only works if all of the spike bucks are born at the same time. I hunt in the hill country and we might very well have "yearling" bucks that vary in age as much as 4 of even 5 months. Those that are born late are much more likely to be spikes with their first set of horns and it has nothing to do with genetics. Killing them because they were born late is not vet bright. The TPWD study that said spikes needed to be killed is a deeply flawed study and has been dis-proven by other more up-to date studies. The only reason that they are still on the tag is because they do not want to deal with the public backlash that might happen if they removed them.

-john

[super_dave]

With a good ratio, why would you have a 5 month difference in age of fawns.

My opinion is based on a structured and healthy 1:2 ratio. Where your fawn bucks are at most 2 months apart in age. Breeders don't have to kill all spikes at 1.5 because if their herd is managed well they won't have any

[Split Arrow]

Without nutrition, a nub the first fall he's alive. The next year I think he should fork.
With nutrition, he would be a nub or spike the first fall. The next year he would be a 6 or 8.
When I hunted foster ranch last fall I was privledged to see a huge age range of deer in one spot. All very healthy and protein fed deer. Some of the fawn bucks had spikes, but NONE of the yearlings were spikes. This was a highly managed deer heard, and because of the structure an health of the heard I assumed it to be a pretty good model. Foster was a breeder, so I trust him

Never seen a fawn with anything more than an inch. 99.9% of all spikes are 1.5.

[Split Arrow]

With a good ratio, why would you have a 5 month difference in age of fawns.

My opinion is based on a structured and healthy 1:2 ratio. Where your fawn bucks are at most 2 months apart in age. Breeders don't have to kill all spikes at 1.5 because if their herd is managed well they won't have any

Because sometimes does cycle in early/late. Or sometimes it takes twice (or three tries) to get pregnant. There are fawns born months apart even in breeder pens.

I've seen plenty of deer within breeder pens that are spikes. It happens.

This deer was a spike last year... Not a giant, but definitely a nice buck for a two year old.

[wlfhound27]

let him walk. hes ony 1. In two years if hes still a spike, then shoot him.

[TX_Hoghunter]

With a good ratio, why would you have a 5 month difference in age of fawns.

My opinion is based on a structured and healthy 1:2 ratio. Where your fawn bucks are at most 2 months apart in age. Breeders don't have to kill all spikes at 1.5 because if their herd is managed well they won't have any

We are a low fence 800 hill country lease. While we do a very good job of managing "our: deer we have no control over the neighbors... Our buck to doe ratio is pretty ****ed good, but even with that yearling does will cycle late so I don't care what you do you should always have at least a few late fawns.

-john

[I shoot Rage]

Slice him and dice him... love eating those young deer. OH NO, should have said that on the green screen, here come the comments.

[Phi Phi Hunter]

yep let us walk and show us a pic if he's still a spike at 3yo