Apocalypse Trump - The Final Days

[texansfan]

So this is the Pace Thread, where young idiots that graduated from UT or Tech, can tell us how much they know and how smarter they are from anyone, that disagrees with them.

Buddy, I have news for you. Your degree in BA, Art, Economics, etc., ain't shiate. Do the hard sciences, then learn logic.

"Meet down at Arizona Bay", which probably whizzes over your head.

Those same "young idiots" are the ones who control your media and has silenced your President.

All that big might, brawn and machismo quickly comes to an end with a few keystrokes.

[texansfan]

[*]He told Trump he should call Joe Biden, meet with the president-elect and follow tradition and leave a welcome letter in the Resolute Desk for his successor.
[*]The president told him he hadn't decided whether to do so for Biden.
]

As I said before, Sore Loser.
There is no way I can have my children look to this guy for any type of leadership.
None!
There have been some great men that have led this nation, Trump is not one of them.
Just bratty.

[rocky]

I was actually watching the news coverage of him speaking. I couldn't believe what he said and I told my wife he basically called them to arms (figuratively) and some crazy is going to take him up on it. I told her something bad is going to happen - and it did.

That said, there is now ample evidence that what happened was planned in advance with both the FBI and NYPD warning capital police of plans they had uncovered. So Trump clearly didn't incite what happened - it was going to happen whether he spoke or not.

That said, I do wonder if there were a few people who were riled by his words and joined in when those who attacked started up. I do feel sorry for those people as I am pretty sure their lives - as they know them - are over at least for awhile.

I thought what Trump did was grossly irresponsible and hardly patriotic. I wish he could have just taken the high road this one time.

If you go back and read posts on this thread, several of them refer to the taking up of arms in DC. This insurrection started long before Trump’s speech. I meant to say on another thread.

[SB09]

Actually, context matters...a whole lot. Your assertion that a completely unrelated comment made years prior to the summer of 2020 was then responsible for inciting violence in 2020 is unsubstantiated and does not pass muster. The Facebook meme was produced to manipulate those who are easily manipulated by memes.

Okay, so let me make sure I understand this....

Hateful and dangerous rhetoric is acceptable, to you, as long as the reaction is beyond a certain timeline set by yourself? If you don't agree with that last question, why are you not concerned with those comments?

Each and every one of those quotes were a danger at the time they were made. Each and every one of those had a reaction. (Ask Ted Cruz what they did to him and his wife, ask the GOP leaders what they did to them when leaving government functions, ask that Trump supporter who was killed by an Antifa member, etc.) I'm prepared to lay them all out for you if you're prepared to listen and not deflect from the fact that they were dangerous and hateful.

Also, you do realize that while "some" may have been said in a different time period than the BLM protests, others weren't, by the admission on the fact checker. The BLM protests isn't even really the topic anyways. I'm solely discussing hateful and dangerous rhetoric. So, no, the context doesn't matter on this particular topic. (Talking only about the rhetoric)

Let's not try to deflect from those like Ayana's quotes, which came during a very sensitive time period where tensions were high. Why is she not being forced out? Context is there on that one.

How about Cory Booker's comments about getting in Congress member's faces. What's peaceful about that?

[TheBeekeeper]

I quoted verifiable statements that were made, including critically important context that discredited the dishonest Facebook meme that was posted.

You know...real evidence.

I'm behind Vermin93 here, as he has indeed researched reputable sources. As a data scientist and researcher, I will go to primary sources when available.

The quality of primary source starts where it first originates. If it is a quote from a politician, look at the politicians website and look for their press release. If it was a live speech, then a reputable Source recorded it.

For example-
The Articles of Impeachment outline the charges. I would prefer the link from the House itself, but it isn't available yet. NYTimes has it scanned, however.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/11/us/articles-impeachment-trump.html

Secondary sources are just that someone who repeats a primary source. Here you must be cautious. What is the bias? If media, has it be edited or altered? If it is a online article, is it from a .gov site or a commercial site? Does the article have a named author? Is the author reputable? If no author named, that sends red flags.

[Speedgoat]

You really are vermin.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[TheBeekeeper]

Here's the problem....

It doesn't matter when or where the comments were made only that they happened. Why does time and place reduce the fact that they incited violence every bit as much as Trump did if we want to make judgements and assumptions?

It matters very much when and where comments are made. Especially to the police, Feds, and the judges.

If we are around the campfire on a hunt and you espouse your ideals of bum rushing congress to change the outcome of an election, that is just talk. But to do so in front of a mob of 8,000 and to incite and encourage then to go up the hill and act. That, clearly, is a different beast, and is illegal. You may not see it yet, but attourneys, and the presidents, will.

Referencing Riot law from Cornel

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2102

" 18 U.S. Code § 2102. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter, the term “riot” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

(b) As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.

[TheBeekeeper]

You really are vermin.

This is known as an Ad Hominem attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

It is low brow and uncalled for, generally used by someone who is unable to debate, or unwilling to accept losing an argument.

We are better than this, show civility to those who have shown civility to you.

-edit-
typos

[Vermin93]

Okay, so let me make sure I understand this....

Hateful and dangerous rhetoric is acceptable, to you, as long as the reaction is beyond a certain timeline set by yourself? If you don't agree with that last question, why are you not concerned with those comments?

Each and every one of those quotes were a danger at the time they were made. Each and every one of those had a reaction. (Ask Ted Cruz what they did to him and his wife, ask the GOP leaders what they did to them when leaving government functions, ask that Trump supporter who was killed by an Antifa member, etc.) I'm prepared to lay them all out for you if you're prepared to listen and not deflect from the fact that they were dangerous and hateful.

Also, you do realize that while "some" may have been said in a different time period than the BLM protests, others weren't, by the admission on the fact checker. The BLM protests isn't even really the topic anyways. I'm solely discussing hateful and dangerous rhetoric. So, no, the context doesn't matter on this particular topic. (Talking only about the rhetoric)

Let's not try to deflect from those like Ayana's quotes, which came during a very sensitive time period where tensions were high. Why is she not being forced out? Context is there on that one.

How about Cory Booker's comments about getting in Congress member's faces. What's peaceful about that?

Not only was the timing, tone and context of those statements entirely ignored, the statements were deceptively paired with imagery that suggests they were directly associated with the riots of 2020. The deception was done to manipulate large numbers of people through the viral dissemination of sensationalized disinformation. It works because plenty of people fall for such visual manipulation without much effort. The meme has been shot down in flames...pun intended.

I'm not justifying any of the statements, but I'm also not playing the tu quoque game that attempts to draw a moral, political, legal and impact equivalence between isolated statements from a handful of congresswomen and months of statements from the President of the United States and his political sycophants that inspired a mob to storm the Capitol chanting "hang Mike Pence". Nice try, though.

[RickBarbee]

This is known as an Ad Hominem attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

It is low brow and uncalled for, generally used by someone who is unable to debate, or unwilling to accept losing an argument.

We are better than this, show civility to those who have shown civility to you.

-edit-
typos

Good people put up with the passive aggressive BS from the left for years.
That led to them having to put up with much less passive (violent) aggression, and be lied to about it.

You can swallow, and spit that kumbaya BS if you want to, but I won't.

Rick

[Vermin93]

T-minus 8 Trump days to go.

I couldn't help but notice that Team QAnon in the conspiracy thread has fully invested their Christian faith into the political Dungeons and Dragons game they've been playing the past 3 months. The expectation has been set that MAGA/QAnon prayers will be answered and Jesus will save America by ensuring that Trump remains POTUS so he may continue his crusade against a make-believe deep state army of devil-worshipping pedophiles. I look forward to seeing what it means for the future of this new MAGA/QAnon Christian denomination when this does not happen. The excuses should be entertaining. Perhaps there will be a return to focusing on actual core teachings of Jesus.

Now, time for the evening news drop. Lots to cover today. Buckle up!

Let's start with one of Trump's chief protectors the past 4 years...GOP Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

McConnell furious with president, supports move to initiate impeachment proceedings: sources

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcc...efforts-report

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell supports Democrats' move to initiate impeachment proceedings against President Trump and is "done" and "furious" with him, sources familiar told Fox News.

It is unclear how McConnell would vote in an impeachment trial, should House Democrats vote to impeach Trump. It is not clear at this point whether McConnell would vote to convict.

One source told Fox News that McConnell has not made up his mind about what to do about impeachment, and does not see this as a partisan exercise like the previous impeachment effort against Trump.

Another source told Fox News that McConnell told associates that impeachment will help rid the Republican Party of Trump and his movement.

[CoolHandLuke]

Trumps brokering peace deals in the Middle East but he’s such a violent person... how many wars have we been in the last 4 years?

[CoolHandLuke]

McConnell has proved to be deep in the swamp. He’s there to line his pockets...

Next!

[Vermin93]

Wow, this is extraordinary....the Joint Chiefs of Staff appear to have had enough. They issued a memo to all US troops condemning the 'sedition and insurrection' at the Capitol and confirming Biden will be the next president. Someone might want to tell the Q*berts.

Message from Joint Chiefs on U.S. Capitol Riot

https://news.usni.org/2021/01/12/mes...s-capitol-riot

MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE
SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.

[signed]

Mark A. Milley
General, U.S. Army
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

John E. Hyten
General, U.S. Air Force
Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

James C. McConville
General, U.S. Army
Chief of Staff of the Army

David H. Berger
General, U.S. Marine Corps
Commandant of the Marine Corps

Michael M. Gilday
Admiral, U.S. Navy
Chief of Naval Operations

Charles Q. Brown, Jr.
General, U.S. Air Force
Chief of Staff of the Air Force

John W. Raymond
General, U.S. Space Force
Chief of Space Operations

Daniel R. Hokanson
General, U.S. Army
Chief of the National Guard Bureau

[Vermin93]

DOJ Federal prosecutors are not messing around. I think that a number of people who thought they were on a MAGA field trip of the Capitol are in for a rude awakening about their futures.

The 3-minute video of U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin in the link below is worth watching.

DOJ probing sedition in connection with Capitol riot

A team is examining whether to file those serious charges, which carry a potential penalty of up to 20 years in prison.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...charges-458309

“We are looking at significant felony cases tied to sedition and conspiracy,” Sherwin said at the Justice Department’s first televised news conference since the violent takeover of the Capitol last Wednesday.

“Just yesterday, our office organized a strike force of very senior national security prosecutors and public corruption prosecutors,” he added. “Their only marching orders from me are to build seditious and conspiracy charges related to the most heinous acts that occurred in the Capitol.”...

...Sherwin described some of the early, less-serious charges filed against participants in the violent riots — in which five people, including a Capitol Police officer, died — as placeholders that would eventually be expanded into far graver indictments. He also said some of the conduct that has received widespread public attention — like the man who sat in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s chair and stole a piece of mail — only scratched the surface of the criminality that took place. Additional, nonpublic information will be “shocking” when it comes out, he said.

The prosecutor also indicated that federal authorities were treating the investigation of the Jan. 6 events as the equivalent of a counterterrorism or counterintelligence investigation, throwing massive resources into the effort to follow finances, communications and movements of the perpetrators...

...With a slew of staggering videos already being played on TV and online, Sherwin insisted that even more disturbing evidence would eventually be made public.

“I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what happened in the Capitol,” the veteran prosecutor said. “I think people are going to be shocked at some of the egregious contact that happened.”