Lower draw weight VS. Crossbow solution

[Big Bill]

I have been for allowing crossbows during archey season. And against lowering the draw weight. I have a 12 yr old daughter who is small in size and big in heart that would love to go hunting with me. But she is a good ways away from being able to draw and shoot 40#. And it would be wrong to let her shoot an animal and wound it from a lower weight bow. I have no desire to use a crossbow myself but allowing those who can't draw 40# to hunt with them will increase the number of hunters in the woods. Also it is archery equipment and I know that a disabled adult can get a permit, but what about young people and women. Why should this "special season" be offlimits too them because of physical stature. I'm not sure where to draw the line. I think if you are able to draw a compound and hold steady you should use one. but I sure hate leaving her behind on opening weekend just because she can't draw 40# when there is a ethical weapon that is not a gun she could be using. And she has got to the point that just sitting with me or her camera is not enough she wants to hunt. So what is the solution? Is it possiable to allow those under a particular age, weight or height to use a crossbow or is that even possiable in this PC world. Do we allow everyone the choice of weapon as long as it shoots an arrow? Or do we simply keep it the way it is and lose those who would later want more of a challenge and would have turned to the compound or recurve to fall by the wayside for the sake of preserving the way it is. Many here were gun hunters and lost interest and turned to the bow for more of a challenge. Many will say let her hunt with the crossbow during gun season and not during "our Special season" To you I say, the crosbow has a much shorter range than a gun and in many cases shorter than i can shoot a compound, and it makes no noise for you to hear from your stand so why not let her enjoy what makes archery only season so special as well. And not have to try her luck after the deer are spooky and the mornings are filled with the roar of guns going off. Why do so many that I would guess have never shot a crossbow have against it. It has sight pins, you have to know the range, you get one shot as reloading is more difficult than a compound, it is not drawn in the presance of an animal, but drawing a compound from the inside if a double bull blind with shoot thru netting is hardly drawing in the presence of game. I don't want to be attacked for my question just want some answers based on fact not openion or smartass remarks. There is a place for this weapon in archery season, and I don't work for a crossbow maker so I am not in this for money only for the love of hunting, all hunting and allowing all hunters to hunt..

[BIG D]

Very good point and as you said, where to draw the line would be an issue.

[Cotton]

And it would be wrong to let her shoot an animal and wound it from a lower weight bow

It would be just as wrong at 40, 50, 70 or even a 100#s. Cat's 34# compound produces 1# of KE more and is 60+ fps faster than my 55# recurve. A bow under 40#s within it’s limits can be just as effective at taking Texas game animals as the bow you shoot. That's the issue with concerns of lowering the draw weight.

Now on to the crossbow. Two years ago I would have been right there with you on this issue. When I researched them I discovered what they were capable of back in accent times such as shooting 10 bolts in 15 seconds I changed positions on this. Now it doesn’t take much of an imagination to see where they could go if the market called for it. After all what marketing target would the manufactures be after? The adult able-bodied gun hunter, the guy that will never pick up a bow for whatever reason. To entice this marketing group you would need two things, the crossbow will have to be closer to the performance of a gun and an extended season. They must have the latter before sinking money in the first. Once there’s a crossbow shooting a bolt at 1300 fps in rapid concession taking animals at 100+ yards what argument will we use then to keep the archery only season? Exaggeration… who can say?

[mesquitecountry]

first off i'm for 35# lowered draw weight and for crossbows.

Once there’s a crossbow shooting a bolt at 1300 fps in rapid concession taking animals at 100+ yards what argument will we use then to keep the archery only season? Exaggeration… who can say?

oh dear lord.

When I researched them I discovered what they were capable of back in accent times such as shooting 10 bolts in 15 seconds I changed positions on this.

i'm calling b.s. on this. were you there to time it? i'm sure their watches were accurate in ancient times.

[Cotton]

MC, why don't you do some reading before you spout stupid ****! Go to the crossbow thread and actually read some info for a change and give an educated statement for once. Otherwise you just come across as a fool!

Here's the site on history of the crossbow, let me know if you need any help with the big words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

[Big Bill]

Kind of a streach there cotton, there is not an automatic crossbow on the market. And as far as that goes the same could be said for compound bows they "could be loaded with a side fed magizine that would load as fast as you could draw. But we both know that is not going to happen. Make the law "hand drawn " crossbow and no automatic cocking devices attached just like the compound has the no electronic laser sight restrictions. Look we can all speculate as to the what if's but lets not get fictional to argue our point. Guns have had a general season for years and I have yet to see it "evolve" to a fully automatic weapon being used to take deer. And why is it ok to lower the draw weight for a less lethal weapon but not allow one of equal capability.

[Big Bill]

Cotton I went to the thread and found you to be guilty of picking and choosing refrence statments,that only fit your argument. The xbow you would lead us to belive is similar to the ones we are discussing was actually fired from the hip and very weak and un accurate. Here is the entire passage.

The chu-ko-nu was a very simple and rugged design. This weapon was extremely easy to manufacture and use, and could easily launch ten bolts in fifteen seconds. In comparison, a standard arbalest could barely shoot one in that time. The chu-ko-nu, however, had neither the power nor the accuracy of a common crossbow. This gave it a shorter range, compensated for by using lightweight arrows instead of the heavy bolts of single-shot crossbows. Thus, the chu-ko-nu was not very useful against more heavily armored troops unless poison was smeared on arrows, in which case even a small wound could be fatal. Since a chu-ko-nu was shot from the hip, the accuracy was poor but could be adjusted very swiftly since the next shot was only a second away.

So using this as a basis to oppose the current compound is equal to opposing guns because of the tank.

[jyoung]

Make the law "hand drawn " crossbow and no automatic cocking devices attached just like the compound has the no electronic laser sight restrictions.

That would still take the weaker hunters out of it as well as children. Those things are hard to cock without any aid if you are not very strong, you might as well use it for a club cause your just going to hurt yourself trying to cock that thing.

I will be the first one to come up with a auto-fed cross bow if they make it legal

I would much rather see lowering of the compound weight than see crossbows made legal. It is my opinion, and since its a free country we are entitled to them I am on the edge with this so I am watching it very closely.

[Mike D]

You beat me to it Jeff. How is someone supposed to draw/cock a weapon that is at least 125# up to 200# without a cocking aid/mechanism if they can't draw a 40# bow?

[Cotton]

Kind of a streach there cotton, there is not an automatic crossbow on the market.

Only because there is not a market for it yet, are you saying it can't be done?

And as far as that goes the same could be said for compound bows they "could be loaded with a side fed magizine that would load as fast as you could draw.

I've watch compounds come on the scene and when they did they were not any better than the recurve. Much like the crossbow is being compared to the compound now. How long did it take for them to surpass the recurve? About as long as it took for there to be a market for them. Look at how compound technology took off in the mid to late 90's. IMO the compound is taking us dangerously close to not needing a season before the guns hit the woods. Just search any archery forum and see how many folks are boasting about 50+ yard shots.

Look we can all speculate as to the what if's but lets not get fictional to argue our point.

I’m not getting fictional I’m basing it on the history of the compound and the capabilities of ancient crossbows. If you look at the vast difference between today’s compound and today’s recuves I see no reason that gap will not be twofold when comparing compounds to crossbows. I see this happening in the very near future once there is a market put in place for crossbows. There would be nothing keeping them from developing a crossbow with the effective range of 100 yards plus. Once that takes place the “we need to get close” argument is gone along with our archery season.

[mesquitecountry]

thanks big bill. i didnt feel the need to read unimportant info. that i felt was being manipulated to prove a story wrong.

[mesquitecountry]

I’m not getting fictional I’m basing it on the history of the compound and the capabilities of ancient crossbows. If you look at the vast difference between today’s compound and today’s recuves I see no reason that gap will not be twofold when comparing compounds to crossbows. I see this happening in the very near future once there is a market put in place for crossbows. There would be nothing keeping them from developing a crossbow with the effective range of 100 yards plus. Once that takes place the “we need to get close” argument is gone along with our archery season.

there already is a market

Cotton. i would like to keep this civil. are you also against compound bows.

[trailboss]

Just curious - what would be wrong with letting your daughter hunt with a crossbow during the general season and leave the special archery only season as it was meant to be? The regulations allow for that now.

Trailboss

[tinman]

Kind of a streach there cotton, there is not an automatic crossbow on the market.

There was no such thing as an "inline muzzleloader" a few years ago either.

[Mike D]

There was no such thing as an "inline muzzleloader" a few years ago either.

That's whole different topic for discussion, but a very valid point.