Human resources question

[Huntsman27]

I would talk to the new owners to find out what there plans are for.

No sure what you product is but my guess is that it can be tested and “reversed engineered” to determine the recipe.

Did other employ that have already been let go have the recipe?

[manwitaplan]

If it is a holding company that bought your company then their only concern is ROI. They will bring in management and fire all employees they feel are over paid.

These guys saying the formula can be reversed engineered are correct but at what time frame and accuracy. Seems like being down for a week or two can smash the bottom line.

If you do not have another job lined up you need to make them fire you but be careful with this one because insubordination is tricky.

As other business owners on this thread have stated you need to talk with HR or owner and try and understand long term strategy for company. Also, keep praying for guidance.

If I was vengeful I like the fake formula idea the best so far.


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[HeyMikey]

OP may not hold as strong of cards as many might think
Simple way to get formula is for him to cooperate & write it down
Otherwise they will go the route of analytical techniques & methods and deduce the formulation that way. More costly & time consuming but it can be done

I don't recall seing where anyone (including the OP) stated that the formula couldn't be reproduced or obtained by other means.

[HogHunter34]

If it is a holding company that bought your company then their only concern is ROI. They will bring in management and fire all employees they feel are over paid.

These guys saying the formula can be reversed engineered are correct but at what time frame and accuracy. Seems like being down for a week or two can smash the bottom line.

If you do not have another job lined up you need to make them fire you but be careful with this one because insubordination is tricky.

As other business owners on this thread have stated you need to talk with HR or owner and try and understand long term strategy for company. Also, keep praying for guidance.

If I was vengeful I like the fake formula idea the best so far.


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You don’t have to be down to analyze the material/component
Retained material or product can be tested offline
Todays analytical methods can nail the formula down with good accuracy

[Lone_Wolf]

Just keep your nose to the grindstone, don't give up any info. Be honest, when it comes down to sitting down with the people who make the decisions. Start looking for a new job. No videos, no documenting anything. Look up ageism and The employment act of 1967. It won't save you, but this is just wrong. It's a pipe dream to start your own company with the "recipe" so forget that. Face reality, do your job, do it well. Don't ask for a raise. But whatever you do, don't comply with the request to video and document your work. Even if you have to take a pay cut, you can stay on long enough to find new employment.

[txlawdog]

A lot of people misunderstand the reason for companies. It is not to bring jobs to the masses, it is to make the most return on their investment. They just need the people to do the work for them. Some companies are better than others but the number one reason is the return. If there is no return on the investment there is no reason for the investment. Sounds cynical but it is pretty much the way it is. Wishing you luck in your decision. Sounds like you could either win or lose no matter the decision.

[ThisLadyHunts]

Question how hard is it to figure out the recipe for the mixture. Could a chemist with a lot of training and knowledge be able to figure it out. Does it have a patented on it.

These are the first questions that came to my mind as well. The others are: who came up with this formula and where/how was it generated?

If an employee of a company creates a formula/recipe for that company while he/she is an employee of said company, then the formula in question is legally considered to be the intellectual property of The Company.

I’m guessing that since the formula is not documented nor the process codified, there is probably no patent for it; at least not in it’s current iteration. But, ultimately, I think this is neither here nor there, as I’ll explain below.

I only see two reasonable choices for you: The first is that you do as instructed and write down the formula (refusal to do so would be insubordination), or you quit (whether you leave with or without documenting the formula is up to you).

However, A WORD OF CAUTION about taking this formula and using it for your own financial gain: The Company could reasonably argue that the formula is the intellectual property of the company and that all rights belong to The Company, especially if it was generated under the conditions I mentioned above. (In fact, it’s quite possible you may have unknowingly signed something in the past stating you acknowledge that all rights to intellectual property developed while in the employ of The Company are the property of The Company. Check the most current edition of the employees’ manual and any current or past job descriptions for some fine print related to this.) If you use this formula to either 1) start your own business or 2) sell or trade to a competitor, you should expect The Company to litigate against you. If this formula is as central to their business plan as I suspect it is, you should expect them to fight you tooth and nail to retain sovereign proprietorship. Now, they could win or they could lose but, either way, if their pockets are deeper than yours, you lose either way.

Of course, if there were a way to alter the formula by at least 10% (I assume this still meets the legal definition of a deviation from the original) and either maintain or improve its integrity, then….

**Note: I am NOT an employment attorney, just an Average Joe with many years of management experience in an unusually broad array of environments. Take my advice for what it’s worth, for it may be worth no more than you paid for it.

[miket]

These are the first questions that came to my mind as well. The others are: who came up with this formula and where/how was it generated?

If an employee of a company creates a formula/recipe for that company while he/she is an employee of said company, then the formula in question is legally considered to be the intellectual property of The Company.

I’m guessing that since the formula is not documented nor the process codified, there is probably no patent for it; at least not in it’s current iteration. But, ultimately, I think this is neither here nor there, as I’ll explain below.

I only see two reasonable choices for you: The first is that you do as instructed and write down the formula (refusal to do so would be insubordination), or you quit (whether you leave with or without documenting the formula is up to you).

However, A WORD OF CAUTION about taking this formula and using it for your own financial gain: The Company could reasonably argue that the formula is the intellectual property of the company and that all rights belong to The Company, especially if it was generated under the conditions I mentioned above. (In fact, it’s quite possible you may have unknowingly signed something in the past stating you acknowledge that all rights to intellectual property developed while in the employ of The Company are the property of The Company. Check the most current edition of the employees’ manual and any current or past job descriptions for some fine print related to this.) If you use this formula to either 1) start your own business or 2) sell or trade to a competitor, you should expect The Company to litigate against you. If the formula is as central to their business plan as I suspect it is, you should expect them to fight you tooth and nail. Now, they could win or they could lose but, either way, if their pockets are deeper than yours, you lose either way.

Now, if there were a way to “tweak” the formula by at least 10% (I assume this still meets the legal definition of a deviation from the original), then….

**Note: I am NOT an employment attorney, just an Average Joe with over 35 years of management experience. And just when I think I’ve seen it all…

Yep, if the formulation was created while you were being paid, it is theirs. All your paid work belongs to them. You traded your labor and knowledge for money.

That being said, ( and as TLH stated ) as so often happens in the oil business ( and probably all business, but I only know my business), making a small "improvement" could make it yours ( on your own time ). Doesnt mean they wont sue you anyway though.

Sorry you are in this position, but it appears your assessment is correct. Once they get it from you, you are gone. Best of luck, and I hope Im wrong!

[White Falcon]

I would get a Lawyer first, and most have 1 hour free. If you give him the formula and it is made wrong and some one gets sick or dies, you might be held accountable for it since you gave them the formula. If you decide to give it to them, have them sign a statment that you are not responsible for any mistakes you make or anyone else makes. Have 2 administers sign and you. Have it Notarized at your company in front of all parties.

[curtintex]

These are the first questions that came to my mind as well. The others are: who came up with this formula and where/how was it generated?

If an employee of a company creates a formula/recipe for that company while he/she is an employee of said company, then the formula in question is legally considered to be the intellectual property of The Company.

I’m guessing that since the formula is not documented nor the process codified, there is probably no patent for it; at least not in it’s current iteration. But, ultimately, I think this is neither here nor there, as I’ll explain below.

I only see two reasonable choices for you: The first is that you do as instructed and write down the formula (refusal to do so would be insubordination), or you quit (whether you leave with or without documenting the formula is up to you).

However, A WORD OF CAUTION about taking this formula and using it for your own financial gain: The Company could reasonably argue that the formula is the intellectual property of the company and that all rights belong to The Company, especially if it was generated under the conditions I mentioned above. (In fact, it’s quite possible you may have unknowingly signed something in the past stating you acknowledge that all rights to intellectual property developed while in the employ of The Company are the property of The Company. Check the most current edition of the employees’ manual and any current or past job descriptions for some fine print related to this.) If you use this formula to either 1) start your own business or 2) sell or trade to a competitor, you should expect The Company to litigate against you. If this formula is as central to their business plan as I suspect it is, you should expect them to fight you tooth and nail to retain sovereign proprietorship. Now, they could win or they could lose but, either way, if their pockets are deeper than yours, you lose either way.

Of course, if there were a way to alter the formula by at least 10% (I assume this still meets the legal definition of a deviation from the original) and either maintain or improve its integrity, then….

**Note: I am NOT an employment attorney, just an Average Joe with many years of management experience in an unusually broad array of environments. Take my advice for what it’s worth, for it may be worth no more than you paid for it.

Much better advice than mine….[emoji4]


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[Ætheling]

Human resources question

Eff a corporation. Look out for your own. Get a contract through them or take your knowledge and bounce.

If they want a step by step then you are not part of their future.


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[Burnadell]

I was going to post that the formula is the intellectual property of the company, But ThisLayHunts said it all.

For those saying to demand a contract or leave and start a new company with the formula are naive. First, it takes capital to start a business...and time to build a customer base...and business acumen, and the OP will be tied up with lawsuits from the company.

Realistically, you have no choice but to do as asked by your new employer unless you have considerable funds set aside and are willing to risk them in a standoff. You will lose.

[Buck Shot]

These are the first questions that came to my mind as well. The others are: who came up with this formula and where/how was it generated?

If an employee of a company creates a formula/recipe for that company while he/she is an employee of said company, then the formula in question is legally considered to be the intellectual property of The Company.

I’m guessing that since the formula is not documented nor the process codified, there is probably no patent for it; at least not in it’s current iteration. But, ultimately, I think this is neither here nor there, as I’ll explain below.

I only see two reasonable choices for you: The first is that you do as instructed and write down the formula (refusal to do so would be insubordination), or you quit (whether you leave with or without documenting the formula is up to you).

However, A WORD OF CAUTION about taking this formula and using it for your own financial gain: The Company could reasonably argue that the formula is the intellectual property of the company and that all rights belong to The Company, especially if it was generated under the conditions I mentioned above. (In fact, it’s quite possible you may have unknowingly signed something in the past stating you acknowledge that all rights to intellectual property developed while in the employ of The Company are the property of The Company. Check the most current edition of the employees’ manual and any current or past job descriptions for some fine print related to this.) If you use this formula to either 1) start your own business or 2) sell or trade to a competitor, you should expect The Company to litigate against you. If this formula is as central to their business plan as I suspect it is, you should expect them to fight you tooth and nail to retain sovereign proprietorship. Now, they could win or they could lose but, either way, if their pockets are deeper than yours, you lose either way.

Of course, if there were a way to alter the formula by at least 10% (I assume this still meets the legal definition of a deviation from the original) and either maintain or improve its integrity, then….

**Note: I am NOT an employment attorney, just an Average Joe with many years of management experience in an unusually broad array of environments. Take my advice for what it’s worth, for it may be worth no more than you paid for it.

^this

[Ætheling]

I was going to post that the formula is the intellectual property of the company, But ThisLayHunts said it all.

For those saying to demand a contract or leave and start a new company with the formula are naive. First, it takes capital to start a business...and time to build a customer base...and business acumen, and the OP will be tied up with lawsuits from the company.

Realistically, you have no choice but to do as asked by your new employer unless you have considerable funds set aside and are willing to risk them in a standoff. You will lose.

He most certainly has a choice. He can ask for a contract and if they say no he can tell them to pound sand AND NOT start a new business with the formula.


Tell em to get bent OP. Let em fire you, it’s obviously their plan anyway.


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[mrduxs]

Sounds like you have some leverage. Tricky part is balancing not overplaying your hand vs. where you want to be going forward 5-10 years from now.

Good point in ten years I want to be retired