Waterfowl Load Question

[Lungbustr]

Only shells I'll buy, threw away my steel

Yall must not hunt much. 1.40 a shell bismuth vs .52 for a quality steel shell. Dead is dead.

[Quackerbox]

Yall must not hunt much. 1.40 a shell bismuth vs .52 for a quality steel shell. Dead is dead.

right.

hunt the X and kill em with 6s

[justletmein]

I mean, yall only shoot 6 times per day, right?

[Lone_Wolf]

Thanks everyone. I’ve been shopping at Rogers. I just finished up a case of Kent #4’s last season with a Carlson’s mid range choke. It was a great combo and patterned well. I was going to go to the Rio this year anyway.

I’m looking at the 1-3/8 oz loads. They are a little slower, but have more shot than the 1-1/4.

They do have the Fiocchi shot in #4 available. Anyone ever shot that?

Thanks,
Skooter


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Speed kills when it comes to steel, and you need a good pattern. 1-1/4 is more then enough if you're shooting #4(it's all about your pattern), but if you have a recipe that you're confident I understand wanting to stick with it. The Federal Red box ammo is almost Identical to Remington Nitro Steel, and I have excellent results out of factory modified choke in three different Benelli Nova's. Shooting #2 in the Federal Red box 1 1/4 oz #2's.

[Lone_Wolf]

https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/...&shot_size=113

Cant go wrong with these. They are fairly cheap too.

I second this. Some of the best steel out there.

[175gr7.62]

We shoot the Rio Blue Steel 3” #3’s. Buy a couple cases from Rogers every year. We shoot 99% mallards on farm ponds and I don’t have a single complaint. I think we normally pay about $85-$90/case.


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[MooseontheLoose]

I shoot a few times and kill a couple birds every season.

There’s not a bullet listed in this thread that won’t kill ducks. One could argue that the choke & pattern is more important than the actual bullet itself, especially with the close quarters farm pond hunting mentioned in the OP. Anything listed in this thread would work for that type of hunting.

I went down the bullet rabbit hole a couple years ago to really look at bullets, shot sizes and wads. I can’t find my other bag with some different brands in it but here’s a quick comparison of some common bullets found at Academy. All the shells are 3” #2s, 3s, and 4s, 1-1/4 oz. payload, except the Boss because it’s 2.75”. The Remington Sportsman Hi Speed Steel was the only different payload at 1-1/8 oz. All of the data is straight from the manufacturers except for the pellet count. I cut open each shell and did that myself. (Chart snip below).

Almost all the same payload and relatively similar speeds, from 1350 to 1550. Steel loses speed very quickly, so unless you are shooting birds under 10 yards, or are shooting the hypersonic speed (1650+ fps) loads, speeds at 20 yards are relatively equal. Those really hot loads lose speed quickly after 20 yards, so there are diminishing returns there. With payloads and speeds being relatively equal, the 4s and 5s have a significant advantage to helping your shot string with the pellet count. Counts could be even better for a few of them (Remington and Hevi-Metal/Hevi-Steel) if they didn’t use plastic or flaxseed as fillers. (Snips below). They say it's used for crimping, but it's still taking up shell space with filler.

Bismuth is a denser metal than steel (9.6g/cc vs. 7.8g/cc), so it’ll hit them with a little more umph. Does it mean the difference between killing a duck or not? Probably not in most cases, especially at 10-20 yards, but it might make a different in situations where penetration could be an issue (further shots, passing shots, late season plumed up birds, etc.). Apex ammo and the tungsten loads are even better, but they're significantly more expensive per shell. I've seen shots made with that stuff that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen it.

I’ve killed birds with every shell listed here, along with a bunch that aren’t. Steel will work. Bismuth & the other heavier metals also work. The bismuth is more expensive, but it’s a higher quality product. It's not for everyone though. My experience with it has been less crippled & follow up shots than I had with steel. I’ve noticed this the most with the redheads and bluebills at the coast. I have shot less, but it’s because of less follow-up shots

I’ve killed everything from teal to geese to turkeys with that little 2.75” shell. It's the same payload, traveling the same speed, with more & heavier pellets, and no fillers in the shells. It’s not a magic bullet, but it flat works.

[stickman]

Shoot them close in the decoys with 4s, my preference is 2s for big ducks. Kicks high flyer works well

[justletmein]

I shoot a few times and kill a couple birds every season.

There’s not a bullet listed in this thread that won’t kill ducks. One could argue that the choke & pattern is more important than the actual bullet itself, especially with the close quarters farm pond hunting mentioned in the OP. Anything listed in this thread would work for that type of hunting.

I went down the bullet rabbit hole a couple years ago to really look at bullets, shot sizes and wads. I can’t find my other bag with some different brands in it but here’s a quick comparison of some common bullets found at Academy. All the shells are 3” #2s, 3s, and 4s, 1-1/4 oz. payload, except the Boss because it’s 2.75”. The Remington Sportsman Hi Speed Steel was the only different payload at 1-1/8 oz. All of the data is straight from the manufacturers except for the pellet count. I cut open each shell and did that myself. (Chart snip below).

Almost all the same payload and relatively similar speeds, from 1350 to 1550. Steel loses speed very quickly, so unless you are shooting birds under 10 yards, or are shooting the hypersonic speed (1650+ fps) loads, speeds at 20 yards are relatively equal. Those really hot loads lose speed quickly after 20 yards, so there are diminishing returns there. With payloads and speeds being relatively equal, the 4s and 5s have a significant advantage to helping your shot string with the pellet count. Counts could be even better for a few of them (Remington and Hevi-Metal/Hevi-Steel) if they didn’t use plastic or flaxseed as fillers. (Snips below). They say it's used for crimping, but it's still taking up shell space with filler.

Bismuth is a denser metal than steel (9.6g/cc vs. 7.8g/cc), so it’ll hit them with a little more umph. Does it mean the difference between killing a duck or not? Probably not in most cases, especially at 10-20 yards, but it might make a different in situations where penetration could be an issue (further shots, passing shots, late season plumed up birds, etc.). Apex ammo and the tungsten loads are even better, but they're significantly more expensive per shell. I've seen shots made with that stuff that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen it.

I’ve killed birds with every shell listed here, along with a bunch that aren’t. Steel will work. Bismuth & the other heavier metals also work. The bismuth is more expensive, but it’s a higher quality product. It's not for everyone though. My experience with it has been less crippled & follow up shots than I had with steel. I’ve noticed this the most with the redheads and bluebills at the coast. I have shot less, but it’s because of less follow-up shots

I’ve killed everything from teal to geese to turkeys with that little 2.75” shell. It's the same payload, traveling the same speed, with more & heavier pellets, and no fillers in the shells. It’s not a magic bullet, but it flat works.

Flaxseed filler, that's fascinating. I guess it's been a while since I cut one up haven't seen that nor the large plastic beads. Man with the way guys shoot on the public WMA's they could get in trouble for baiting quickly enough. LOL

[friscopaint]

Yall must not hunt much. 1.40 a shell bismuth vs .52 for a quality steel shell. Dead is dead.

I hunt a lot. Much fewer cripples and I can afford them and I get them at the pallet price

[Sinkey]

Ive been using Nitros for years now. At 1700 fps., why not!

But this year I did want to play around with either Boss or Hevi Shot. Heard good things about both.

[SaintBlaise]

I shot a case of it last year and had great results. Great product and happy to support an American company

I'll be shooting it again this year.

Moose, what are you thoughts on heavy versus light loads?

I hunt geese, and we have been using 3.5" 1 shot heavy loads for years. We shoot the 1's for a few reasons. More pellets, and we can reach out if a duck comes in. Is there a case for the light load?

[MooseontheLoose]

Moose, what are you thoughts on heavy versus light loads?

I hunt geese, and we have been using 3.5" 1 shot heavy loads for years. We shoot the 1's for a few reasons. More pellets, and we can reach out if a duck comes in. Is there a case for the light load?

Interesting question. I think you can make a strong case for the lighter loads with the heavier metals.

I’ve never shot aces but have shot 3.5” #2s at geese and cranes for the exact reasons you mentioned. I don’t have any 3” or 3.5” #1s to compare, but I do have a 3” #2 shell. The bag I can’t find has the other 3.5” loads and some BBs in it as well.

The 3.5” #2 shell is a Black Cloud with 1.5 oz. of payload. There are 175 pellets in that shell. With some rough math I would bet there’s a pellet count in the high 150s/low 160s for a 3.5” #1.

I’ll compare the 2.75” bismuth to the 3.5” Black Cloud, since those are the shells I have. With the 3.5” shells, you’re shooting only .25 oz. more payload (in .75” more of shell) of a lighter metal while losing about 60 pellets in your pattern. The pellets are bigger, but there are almost 30% fewer of them in a bigger, harder kicking shell.

I’ve become more and more of a fan of hitting them with the heavier metal due to the energy retention. It’s basically the same thing as the light vs. heavy arrow in the bowhunting world. Speeds and payloads relatively equal, it makes more sense (to me), to hit them with more heavier pellets than fewer lighter ones. Other factors like hunting type/style/shot distance expectation should also play a factor in shell selection. Choke/shell combo and patterning is huge.

You absolutely don’t need a heavier metal shell to kill birds, but if it’s a more efficient bullet and you can afford it, my philosophy is, why not? Hitting them with more energy could be the difference between penetrating the down vs. bouncing off of it, or just hitting a wing bone vs. actually breaking it.

Another factor for me (albeit not a huge one) is the gun kick & recovery time between shots. My gun doesn’t react nearly as much to the 2.75” shell as it does to the candlesticks (especially the BBs), which helps shot recovery & target acquisition for shots 2 & 3.

There’s been a big movement in the turkey world the last few years going to the TSS tungsten loads. Guys are frequently reporting kills out to 60-80 yards with the heavier metal shells, shooting #7-9 shot. I personally haven’t shot those shells (nor would I shoot a turkey that far), but the energy retention at distance and shell performance is there, especially for such small pellets. I’ve killed 3 longbeards with the 2.75” bismuth load. If they can knock a 19 lb. turkey flat off his feet at 25 yards, they’ll definitely work on a 6 lb. goose under normal shooting distances.

I’ve killed specks, snows, and cacklers with the 2.75” shells. I haven’t noticed any negatives shooting them, or had times where I wish I had a bigger shell. You mentioned ducks while goose hunting, and I’ve had the opposite happen. We were duck hunting a small flooded cedar lake and an 8 pack of cacklers flew over well within range. Dropped 5 out of the 8 and the little shells didn’t miss a beat.

There are a lot of interesting loads on the market now in the heavier metals. I’m a fan of the Boss stuff and they have a 3” #2, a 3” 3/5 blend, and a 3” #5 among other loads now. I’ll probably pick up a box of the 3” 5s just to see what kind of pellet count is in that shell. There's a big movement with guys dropping down to 16, 20, & 28 gauges hunting ducks & geese with the heavier metal loads since the performance is there. As an aside, I'm not affiliated with Boss in any way, just relaying my experiences with them and other shells in general. They make a quality product but aren't a magic bullet. I just enjoy this stuff.

[Lungbustr]

By that logic you guys should try some tss tungsten loads. Dont cheap out and stop at bismuth when tungsten is so much better.

A 20 gauge with tss is better than a 12 gauge boss bismuth load. It has less recoil, longer range, much better penetration.

Ive shot and loaded it all. At the end of the day getting them to decoy on up then crushing them with the right choke/steel shot load is cost effective and works best for me.

I can probably even use the cost savings to take an extra hunting trip out of state every year.

[friscopaint]

By that logic you guys should try some tss tungsten loads. Dont cheap out and stop at bismuth when tungsten is so much better.

A 20 gauge with tss is better than a 12 gauge boss bismuth load. It has less recoil, longer range, much better penetration.

Ive shot and loaded it all. At the end of the day getting them to decoy on up then crushing them with the right choke/steel shot load is cost effective and works best for me.

I can probably even use the cost savings to take an extra hunting trip out of state every year.

And I could use a pump Nova but instead use Beretta Unico, which works great with Boss.......