Anyone shoot 19% FOC or greater with a heavy arrow?

[Smart]

The one main reason anyone would want to increase the FOC is K.E. I didn't see one mention of this on anyone's posts. Yes heavier FOC should increase a better arrow flight with optimum performance. There are just a lot of factors to take into consideration in determining the optimum performance of flight. D.W, D.L, FPS.
I'm new to archery, I've only been doing this for 56 years. There are those with the mindset (and I'm sure some of you think this way). the faster the arrow the less chance of missing the target due to not being able to judge distance correctly.
I've been shooting heavy for long before many of you were born, and the reason I started doing this long before we knew what FOC and K.E. was this; upon releasing the arrow all the energy of the bow goes into the arrow and within a nanosecond all that energy is transferred to the end of the shaft. A heaver broadhead will then pull the arrow rather than the arrow pushing the broadhead, resulting in optimum flight performance. Each piece of equipment we own will vary depending on it's specs. The only time I ever shot anything less than at least 200gn up front was in competition.
Some of you old timers might know me was The Rev from Hunting.net or Bjank from Archery Talk and Texas Hunting forum. My knife business keeps me very busy and I suffered a catastrophic car crash in 2011 (again of you old timers might remember that) or I would still be working events with Bowtech and shooting competition, I just had to chime in my 2 Cents worth.

Kinetic Energy is a bad word in the world of high FOC junkies. . I think they like/prefer momentum measurements..

[Mudslinger]

Momentum is the ability of something to penetrate, hence the archery world has switched to it instead of KE that is commonly used in talking about rifles/pistols and such.

With that being said, the biggest reason I switched was after I saw the results of my little testing. I shot arrows from 420 grains to the 595 I am shooting now with the FOC going form under 10% to over 19% if I recall right. What I noticed in shooting arrows of increasing FOC and total arrow weight was the bow got quieter, it seemed the arrows were more forgiving of my bad form and they definitely were way more accurate at longer distances the heavier they got and with a higher FOC. Shoot what is the best and more accurate for you.

Just my opinion on the matter.

[rocky]

So its a durability issue with feathers for you and I understand that. if you don't have the time to replace them regularly I can see shooting plastic. that still doesn't explain the statement that shooting feathers ruins the bow.

“Ruin the bow” was not the intent of my statement. Feathers are fragile, and are a pain in the butt. You’re right that replacing them often will make them more reliable. The problem with feathers, is that you have to shoot them to be able to determine when they need to be replaced. Wet feathers really affect an arrow. Plastic vanes are simply more reliable. I am a middle road, low maintenance bowhunter. I want pretty flat trajectory in a whitetail bow, arrows that are consistent, and will penetrate enough to kill them. They’re not very thick, or tough. If you shoot a whitetail in the lower shoulder or leg bone, there are not vitals behind those bones. At that point, penetration is a non- factor.

[DrBob]

https://www.ashbybowhunting.org

[Smart]

I've read Kinetic Energy is a bad word in the world of high FOC junkies. . I think they like/prefer momentum measurements over KE..

FIFMyself.

I needed to correct my original post as I am just a reader on the subject.....TBH mostly. Earlier it read like I know what the hell I am talking about...

[Texans42]

Been watching the Ranch Fairy on YouTube. Weird name ....I know but he has some interesting videos regarding FOC and 500 to 600 grain arrow builds

I'm looking at giving it a shot. Anyone have any experience with this setup

Yes, but eventually stopped chasing the FOC and just went with all around arrow weight in low 500’s. Just wasn’t enough of an improvement to have to change spine so much. I felt like all I did was just keep chopping arrows down. Essentially it’s a long tuning chore unless you just spine out right off the bat, or aren’t as in depth on your tuning.

[Texans42]

Also kudu point makes brass point weight adaptors that are easy to change out to make tuning quicker . Think 25gr, 50gr and 75gr

[rocky]

FIFMyself.

I needed to correct my original post as I am just a reader on the subject.....TBH mostly. Earlier it read like I know what the hell I am talking about...

Both are simply numbers indicating penetration potential. I’m reading posts that claim that the head from a higher foc arrow “pulls” the shaft behind it better. My mind tells me that the head meets resistance first, slows down, and the shaft pushes the head further. But then, I’m no scientist.

[rocky]

Here’s somereal world numbers. I restrung one of my Assassins today and tested arrows. A 390 grain arrow shot at 65 lbs at 28” draw hit 281 FPS. 68.3 ke, .486 momentum. A 415 grain arrow shot 273 fps at 68.69 ke and .502 momentum. A 447 grain arrow shot 264 fps with 69.19 ke and .523 momentum. I’ve killed over a hundred whitetails up to 300 lbs with the 390 arrow.

[Low Fence]

Here’s somereal world numbers. I restrung one of my Assassins today and tested arrows. A 390 grain arrow shot at 65 lbs at 28” draw hit 281 FPS. 68.3 ke, .486 momentum. A 415 grain arrow shot 273 fps at 68.69 ke and .502 momentum. A 447 grain arrow shot 264 fps with 69.19 ke and .523 momentum. I’ve killed over a hundred whitetails up to 300 lbs with the 390 arrow.

I shoot same 385-390 gr set up as rocky. I’ve only killed around 60 deer, but over 200 hogs and I expect a pass through with every shot.

Don’t over think it

[Beargrasstx]

Think about a heavy ball with a string behind it or a stick in it. That stick is not pushing that ball in the air or forward. It is going along for the ride. Maybe a heavy broadhead is same type of concept, rather than the shaft pushing...it is going along for the ride

With that said, I think it would be easier to throw a baseball accurate compared to a golf ball. You can throw the golf ball harder, faster, but not much impact when it hits and in slight bad release will show inaccuracy. A baseball is heavier, more forgiving of bad form compared to a golf ball and while slower, it hits harder.

I am just a reader and researching. I have obviously killed stuff with my 380 gr set up and big hogs etc but I haven't had many pass thrus on any of those animals come to think about it. Well except for the ones that I hit too far back and gut shot/liver shot.

As far as someone making a comment that the shoulder or leg doesn't have any vitals...That would depend on the angle of the archer in relation to the deer. Did the deer move, duck is the hunter in a tree stand. I will say most of my good kills have been from ground blinds. I have had more issues from a tree stand hitting bone or too high. I plan on practicing more for that

[Low Fence]

Think about a heavy ball with a string behind it or a stick in it. That stick is not pushing that ball in the air or forward. It is going along for the ride. Maybe a heavy broadhead is same type of concept, rather than the shaft pushing...it is going along for the ride

What most are building after RF is a cab over Peterbuilt with a 5hp Briggs and Stratton. Lol

Fortunately deer are a fragile animal... a BIG one is about 14” hide to hide

[Smart]

By the time I go through these 3 dozen arrows at 425, somebody will probably create another formula pimping light arrows and speed again.....and it will be all the rage...

[muddyfuzzy]

Other than KE main thing I have been reading is about momentum which is different than KE. That's why FOC is important because it creates more momentum for penetration. At least in reading, I plan on testing it out myself

Mass builds Momentum not FOC. Two arrows weighing the same with stark differences in FOC will produce the exact same Momentum and Kinetic Energy shot from the same bow.

Neither mathematic equation takes into account of the % FOC, it’s all about weight and speed.


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[Beargrasstx]

You say deer are a fragile animal... I would say they are the opposite. They are pretty dang resilient. Sure they are thin skinned but I don't think that makes them fragile. They survive a lot of crazy stuff that you would think would kill them.

It seems speed versus slow, heavy arrows is the argument but trad guys shoot slow but they shoot heavy as well with high FOC. Basically, if what they are doing is proven to work very well. Than the machine we are using in the compound bow might be even more effective if we mimicked some of what they do.

Not here to argue, I really don't have a dog in the fight other than I am going to try the heavier arrow out with a fixed head. If it is better great, if not, then it is easy to go back to old set up. Simply is a tuning and sighting in issue, no biggie and I need the practice

Another thing, I plan on going elk archery hunting at some point. If what I build to whitetail hunt and get plenty of practice at works for elk that is even better than trying to change my set up just for a week long elk hunt