Originally posted by ThePumaLives
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Originally posted by simek View PostJust out of curiosity....do the folks posting on this thread that have voiced a wolf issue take issue with (1) the reintroduction itself or (2) the perceive lack of management that is often associated when a species is assigned a protected status during a recovery period?
I will reiterate...I'm just interested in your thought process. I have no problem with your position on the matter.
It was a decision made on emotion and money, and it couldn't have worked out more badly thus far....and no one is willing to admit it.
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostIn my opinion, work with what nature gives us; if the elk herd can only sustain 30k losses in a year and wolves kill 8k, then issue 22k permits to hunters. Once the wolf population reaches a balance with other animal herds (deer, Buffalo, so on and on) then issue permits for wolf hunting. Hunting an animal to extinction is not the solution, we as sport hunters (assumption on my part, there may be some members who hunt elk for subsistence) have to adapt to nature.
Never said wolves needed to be extinct, again. But they should be knocked down to the original agreed upon recovered levels.
Ungulate numbers dictate predators numbers. If you want the as close to possible max sustainable ungulate population for human consumption you have to manage wolf numbers to an appropriate level which is much much lower then the Yellowstone false-utopia view. .
No such thing as balance with in herds( predator and ungulate) when you are managing for human consumption and sustainability.
If you don’t think we should be managing for max sustainable human consumption then stop hunting, because thier is no justification out side of a sustainable consumption resource.Last edited by Texans42; 02-02-2018, 02:15 PM.
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostIn my opinion, work with what nature gives us; if the elk herd can only sustain 30k losses in a year and wolves kill 8k, then issue 22k permits to hunters. Once the wolf population reaches a balance with other animal herds (deer, Buffalo, so on and on) then issue permits for wolf hunting. Hunting an animal to extinction is not the solution, we as sport hunters (assumption on my part, there may be some members who hunt elk for subsistence) have to adapt to nature.
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostSika, thanks for that photo; I’m going to try have that printed out and framed for my study!
That being said, humans kill three times as many elk as wolves do in Wyoming. The greatest pressure wolves put on the elk herds is January through March; after the time when humans put the most pressure on them. But it isn’t hunting that is causing the elk herds to relocate or shrink, it’s degradation of their habitat due to weather conditions and human development. In summation, humans are more responsible for the perceived decline in the elk herds than wolves are.
I’m kind of disappointed in the responses here that advocate poaching and SSS, especially after the 271/278 and Troup’s dog threads.
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Originally posted by Sika View PostLike this?
“John Deskin Rhea. John was a Deputy U.S. marshal who was born in 1848, passed away in 1924, and is buried in the family plot on his old homestead at Antelope Flat, Briscoe County, Texas - a few miles north of Quitaque, TX.”
[ATTACH]894939[/ATTACH]
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostI’m kind of disappointed in the responses here that advocate poaching and SSS, especially after the 271/278 and Troup’s dog threads.
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Originally posted by unclefish View PostI'm kind of disappointed that you are comparing Troup's beloved domesticated dog to a pack of non-native predators wreaking havoc on the elk population.
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostRead that thread, animals are animals doing their animal things. And again, wolves have not wreaked havoc on the elk population. I suggest everyone do some actual research; because if we’re intending to save the elk then there are a few other things that need to be addressed before wolves. Wolves also aren’t wreaking havoc on livestock or humans.
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Originally posted by ThePumaLives View PostRead that thread, animals are animals doing their animal things. And again, wolves have not wreaked havoc on the elk population. I suggest everyone do some actual research; because if we’re intending to save the elk then there are a few other things that need to be addressed before wolves. Wolves also aren’t wreaking havoc on livestock or humans.
Sport killings are common with these wolves. 19 elk were killed in one night by a pack near Bondurant, WY in March 2016 with the majority of carcasses barely eaten. In 2014 the manager at the Camp Creek Elk feed grounds reported a pack killed 11, 7, 7, 6, and 5 elk during a two week span.
You have not addressed the fact that a non-native species of wolf was introduced.
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Originally posted by unclefish View PostGood grief....everyone on here that mentions elk decline knows the research...they are not pulling it out of their @$$. We know the the Lolo Idaho elk herd crashed 57% in the 4 years after non-native wolves were introduced. We know that the moose population in the Jackson area was roughly 4,000 before wolves were introduced and today it stands at around 500. Its not because of habitat.....because the decrease was so drastic. One wolf eats and average of 1.8 elk per month so the math is pretty simple with what a pack of 15-20 wolves can do in their territory.
Sport killings are common with these wolves. 19 elk were killed in one night by a pack near Bondurant, WY in March 2016 with the majority of carcasses barely eaten. In 2014 the manager at the Camp Creek Elk feed grounds reported a pack killed 11, 7, 7, 6, and 5 elk during a two week span.
You have not addressed the fact that a non-native species of wolf was introduced.
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