Wolf killed

[Ironman]

Declining pregnancy rates and calves dying before their first birthday.

Of those calves, 15% were killed by wolves and 60% were killed by bears. The number killed by bears had more than doubled in twenty years, so why did the bears become so much more reliant on elk in their diet? Because there was a change in the fish populations that bears were previously reliant on. The change? Humans (sport fisherman) illegally releasing fish which wreaked havoc on their populations. The bears were then forced to eat more elk. A much bigger cause of the decline of the Yellowstone herd is due to changing weather patterns that have impacted the grasses of Yellowstone and has depleted the nutritional value of female elk which has resulted in lower pregnancy rates, which is not a problem seen in herds outside of Yellowstone. Again, wolves at the bottom of the list.

So wolves didn't actually change the course of a river. Interesting.

[Dale Moser]

Just out of curiosity....do the folks posting on this thread that have voiced a wolf issue take issue with (1) the reintroduction itself or (2) the perceive lack of management that is often associated when a species is assigned a protected status during a recovery period?

I will reiterate...I'm just interested in your thought process. I have no problem with your position on the matter.

My issue is that the gov't agencies in charge of such things, and who should know more about these things than anyone else..... collectively allowed themselves to be bullied by an un-educated but well funded leftist group, who by all accounts did zero research on the true environmental and ecological impacts of their REALLY BAD decision.

It was a decision made on emotion and money, and it couldn't have worked out more badly thus far....and no one is willing to admit it.

[Texans42]

In my opinion, work with what nature gives us; if the elk herd can only sustain 30k losses in a year and wolves kill 8k, then issue 22k permits to hunters. Once the wolf population reaches a balance with other animal herds (deer, Buffalo, so on and on) then issue permits for wolf hunting. Hunting an animal to extinction is not the solution, we as sport hunters (assumption on my part, there may be some members who hunt elk for subsistence) have to adapt to nature.

No body on this forum sport hunts deer and elk, if you do then enjoy your wanton waste tickets

Never said wolves needed to be extinct, again. But they should be knocked down to the original agreed upon recovered levels.

Ungulate numbers dictate predators numbers. If you want the as close to possible max sustainable ungulate population for human consumption you have to manage wolf numbers to an appropriate level which is much much lower then the Yellowstone false-utopia view. .

No such thing as balance with in herds( predator and ungulate) when you are managing for human consumption and sustainability.

If you don’t think we should be managing for max sustainable human consumption then stop hunting, because thier is no justification out side of a sustainable consumption resource.

[Stoof]

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/environment/northern-yellowstone-elk-herd-at-highest-level-in-more-than/article_44b86caf-db36-57b4-9624-4fad1d19490c.html

Just saw this today. For what it is worth. If anything. Wolves are one of those debates that don't get much middle ground.

[MASTERS]

In my opinion, work with what nature gives us; if the elk herd can only sustain 30k losses in a year and wolves kill 8k, then issue 22k permits to hunters. Once the wolf population reaches a balance with other animal herds (deer, Buffalo, so on and on) then issue permits for wolf hunting. Hunting an animal to extinction is not the solution, we as sport hunters (assumption on my part, there may be some members who hunt elk for subsistence) have to adapt to nature.

Why re-introduce a non-native variance of a predator that once roamed the area, and let it kill 8k elk a year? Sounds like the state is throwing away the revenue those 8k elk could have made at the expense of the taxpayers to reintroduce the problem in the first place......

[ThePumaLives]

And what about livestock?

Around 250 head of livestock are killed each year across three states by wolves, handle them like you do when other animals attack livestock.

[clayree]

Lead poisoning & don't tell anybody. Politicians and libtards will not determine my land's fate on this.

[Texans42]

Around 250 head of livestock are killed each year across three states by wolves, handle them like you do when other animals attack livestock.

What are the actual costs? Not just death loss, stressed herds don’t gain weight well

[Tom]

Sika, thanks for that photo; I’m going to try have that printed out and framed for my study!

That being said, humans kill three times as many elk as wolves do in Wyoming. The greatest pressure wolves put on the elk herds is January through March; after the time when humans put the most pressure on them. But it isn’t hunting that is causing the elk herds to relocate or shrink, it’s degradation of their habitat due to weather conditions and human development. In summation, humans are more responsible for the perceived decline in the elk herds than wolves are.

I’m kind of disappointed in the responses here that advocate poaching and SSS, especially after the 271/278 and Troup’s dog threads.

the population of big game decreased 60% after the introduction and spread of the wolves in Wyoming.....hate to say you are wrong....have you viewed the elk wintering grounds in Jackson in the last 10 years....and then before that??

[cleanair0]

Like this?

“John Deskin Rhea. John was a Deputy U.S. marshal who was born in 1848, passed away in 1924, and is buried in the family plot on his old homestead at Antelope Flat, Briscoe County, Texas - a few miles north of Quitaque, TX.”

[ATTACH]894939[/ATTACH]

Cool pic and had to google for more info. Found this:

[unclefish]

I’m kind of disappointed in the responses here that advocate poaching and SSS, especially after the 271/278 and Troup’s dog threads.

I'm kind of disappointed that you are comparing Troup's beloved domesticated dog to a pack of non-native predators wreaking havoc on the elk population.

[ThePumaLives]

I'm kind of disappointed that you are comparing Troup's beloved domesticated dog to a pack of non-native predators wreaking havoc on the elk population.

Read that thread, animals are animals doing their animal things. And again, wolves have not wreaked havoc on the elk population. I suggest everyone do some actual research; because if we’re intending to save the elk then there are a few other things that need to be addressed before wolves. Wolves also aren’t wreaking havoc on livestock or humans.

[Tom]

Read that thread, animals are animals doing their animal things. And again, wolves have not wreaked havoc on the elk population. I suggest everyone do some actual research; because if we’re intending to save the elk then there are a few other things that need to be addressed before wolves. Wolves also aren’t wreaking havoc on livestock or humans.

Daryl Hannah.....is this you??

[unclefish]

Read that thread, animals are animals doing their animal things. And again, wolves have not wreaked havoc on the elk population. I suggest everyone do some actual research; because if we’re intending to save the elk then there are a few other things that need to be addressed before wolves. Wolves also aren’t wreaking havoc on livestock or humans.

Good grief....everyone on here that mentions elk decline knows the research...they are not pulling it out of their @$$. We know the the Lolo Idaho elk herd crashed 57% in the 4 years after non-native wolves were introduced. We know that the moose population in the Jackson area was roughly 4,000 before wolves were introduced and today it stands at around 500. Its not because of habitat.....because the decrease was so drastic. One wolf eats and average of 1.8 elk per month so the math is pretty simple with what a pack of 15-20 wolves can do in their territory.

Sport killings are common with these wolves. 19 elk were killed in one night by a pack near Bondurant, WY in March 2016 with the majority of carcasses barely eaten. In 2014 the manager at the Camp Creek Elk feed grounds reported a pack killed 11, 7, 7, 6, and 5 elk during a two week span.

You have not addressed the fact that a non-native species of wolf was introduced.



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[35remington]

Good grief....everyone on here that mentions elk decline knows the research...they are not pulling it out of their @$$. We know the the Lolo Idaho elk herd crashed 57% in the 4 years after non-native wolves were introduced. We know that the moose population in the Jackson area was roughly 4,000 before wolves were introduced and today it stands at around 500. Its not because of habitat.....because the decrease was so drastic. One wolf eats and average of 1.8 elk per month so the math is pretty simple with what a pack of 15-20 wolves can do in their territory.

Sport killings are common with these wolves. 19 elk were killed in one night by a pack near Bondurant, WY in March 2016 with the majority of carcasses barely eaten. In 2014 the manager at the Camp Creek Elk feed grounds reported a pack killed 11, 7, 7, 6, and 5 elk during a two week span.

You have not addressed the fact that a non-native species of wolf was introduced.



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Funny. I read research in the airport the other day saying the exact opposite. No sport kills, no significant amount of elk deaths caused by wolves, and not a non-native species.