Lease size discrepancy

[BrandonA]

Moving a fence doesn't change ownership of the land.

I thought the question was how can there be discrepancies.

[Patton]

If the old survey says 800 but there's actually only 750 acres, what do you pay taxes on, 800 or 750?

It would take hundreds of years for the Colorado river to significantly reduce/increase the acreage of land bordered by it.
And I go back to the tax aspect of it.
If the river took away acreage from you, I'd be willing to bet you would not continue to pay taxes on what is now your neighbor's property.

In every instance, the landowner knows EXACTLY how much property he has.
I would say that 99.9% of them exaggerate that number when leasing it out.
We leased a "400 acre" place, then google earth showed it to be about 320 acres.
CAD website showed it to be 315.

I'd be curious to see that Tax card for a property on HWY 290 where the Pedernales river over the past 10 years has taken giant chunks of land. Anybody know which one I am talking about? There is a fence that used to go over a 10 ft gap in the river bank. Now that fence is suspended in the air for about an 80 yard section because the bank has collapsed so much

[denowt]

I thought the question was how can there be discrepancies.

It was and still is.

Moving a fence doesn't change ownership, therefor doesn't change the amount of land that someone owns.

If you own 300 acres and you lease it out as 400 acres, YOU are creating the discrepancy.
YOU know how much land you're paying taxes on and YOU know you're claiming to your hunters.

I can see how moving a fenceline may cause a discrepancy on acreage when using GoogleEarth or similar measuring tool, but the CAD website is going to show the actual acreage(99.9% of the time).

And by you, I don't actually mean you, Brandon.

[BrandonA]

It was and still is.

Moving a fence doesn't change ownership, therefor doesn't change the amount of land that someone owns.

If you own 300 acres and you lease it out as 400 acres, YOU are creating the discrepancy.
YOU know how much land you're paying taxes on and YOU know you're claiming to your hunters.

I can see how moving a fenceline may cause a discrepancy on acreage when using GoogleEarth or similar measuring tool, but the CAD website is going to show the actual acreage(99.9% of the time).

And by you, I don't actually mean you, Brandon.

I agree it doesn't change ownership but it can create discrepancies. As I mentioned earlier, when mom and dad purchased the ranch it was listed as 966 acres. After the survey it came back 1026. The owner was shocked and pleased cause she got more $$$. Those scenarios are probably rare. And several hundred acre discrepancies are man made.

[denowt]

I agree it doesn't change ownership but it can create discrepancies. As I mentioned earlier, when mom and dad purchased the ranch it was listed as 966 acres. After the survey it came back 1026. The owner was shocked and pleased cause she got more $$$. Those scenarios are probably rare. And several hundred acre discrepancies are man made.

I think we're pretty much arguing on the same side.
50 or so acres difference when you're dealing with large acreage is a discrepancy.
Several hundred acres difference is deception.

I'd be curious where your parents extra 60 acres came from.
Do they pay taxes on 966 or 1026 acres?
If their tax bill went up by 60 acres, did someone else's go down by 60 acres?

And as far as the river situations that someone mentioned, if I owned property along a river and the river took away acreage from me, you can bet I would want to get that changed on the tax rolls.
Of course, the taxes may be cheaper to pay than the cost of surveying, filing, etc.
IMO, the county should have to amend their records every so many years when dealing with river erosion. Maybe they do. I don't own any river property so I don't know.

[doghouse]

I think we're pretty much arguing on the same side.
50 or so acres difference when you're dealing with large acreage is a discrepancy.
Several hundred acres difference is deception.

I'd be curious where your parents extra 60 acres came from.
Do they pay taxes on 966 or 1026 acres?
If their tax bill went up by 60 acres, did someone else's go down by 60 acres?

And as far as the river situations that someone mentioned, if I owned property along a river and the river took away acreage from me, you can bet I would want to get that changed on the tax rolls.
Of course, the taxes may be cheaper to pay than the cost of surveying, filing, etc.
IMO, the county should have to amend their records every so many years when dealing with river erosion. Maybe they do. I don't own any river property so I don't know.

If your land has the ag exemption it would cost way too much to survey. Pay your taxes and move on.

[denowt]

If your land has the ag exemption it would cost way too much to survey. Pay your taxes and move on.

Thanks for repeating what I said.

[BrandonA]

I think we're pretty much arguing on the same side.
50 or so acres difference when you're dealing with large acreage is a discrepancy.
Several hundred acres difference is deception.

I'd be curious where your parents extra 60 acres came from.
Do they pay taxes on 966 or 1026 acres?
If their tax bill went up by 60 acres, did someone else's go down by 60 acres?

And as far as the river situations that someone mentioned, if I owned property along a river and the river took away acreage from me, you can bet I would want to get that changed on the tax rolls.
Of course, the taxes may be cheaper to pay than the cost of surveying, filing, etc.
IMO, the county should have to amend their records every so many years when dealing with river erosion. Maybe they do. I don't own any river property so I don't know.

They way I understand it the initial survey was wrong. Pretty sure they are paying taxes on 1026 since that is what was filed and registered. I will find out more.

[Shawn21yz]

How much per acre was the lease. Did anyone take any good deer off the place and what's the deal with the 14 pt? See any pictures of it?

[muzzlebrake]

Rounding off to the next highest whole number seems to be the norm for some people. Adding 20% to that number is fraud.

[Big pig]

If you aren't used to reading appraisal district maps or researching properties on an appraisal district then it could be deceiving. Just looking up the address may not be the entire property if it's split up--I see this a lot at the bank.

This.

As a Landman, i have seen lots of discrepancies.
Before I call him a liar and thief, I would do some title.

Google earth is great for measuring if it is near square.

Had a crook one time lie to us and we never checked. Turns out we were 20% short. We made the deal per acre. But he died before we found out the actual acreage.

[lanceodom]

If you were happy with what you have before you found out, and happy with the landowner, then it really should not make any difference. If you are unhappy and looking for an out, then it could make a big difference.

Bisch

this...

[TildenHunter]

I was on a lease with a TBHer a few years ago outside of Dinero, TX. We were told it was 700 acres. I think we each paid $2,500/person. The acreage was irregular and had a long panhandle shape. I wasn't sure how big the place was but I felt like it was smaller. After a year or two being removed from the property I decided to check the aerial and measure it......388 acres .

[Shawn21yz]

The lease was not bad other than the owners dogs running the property all the time, land owner driving around and by feeders everyday including driving 100yards from stand opening morning, said he didn't see a truck in area so he was checking on things. He would not signed MLD permits after 3rd year of program because one of the neighbor supposedly shot a 14 pt with 20" spread which is total bs but said it could have breed the does and he didn't want to take a chance shooting any. Then when asked about lease being smaller he said it is what it is but said he would lease us another 60 acres for $2500 and which now after the contact fraud term was used he said they would include it for same price we've been paying. I'd just say lease with caution. I will post details and names so others don't run into same issue with these yahoos

Here's your 14 pt you called bs on. Sorry he was only 19" wide

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554819

[Evolver]

Used Acme Planimeter to map my old one lease last night to see how accurate it is. It took a while because they outline is hard to see with the thick tree cover. But looked to be really accurate, like with 7 acres on the 1000. So try Acme, it uses google mas as well if you can spot the exact boundary markers from the aerial view.

Yup. Big fan of Acme Planimeter. I've used it for mapping everything from residential lots to ranches measured by the section and always find it to be extremely accurate. You do have to keep in mind that most property maps actually include up to the middle of any bordering county roads and such as part of the "deeded" acreage. Even so, in most cases that will only put you off by a few acres. If somebody is off by 50-60 acres then there is either direct or indirect misrepresentation going on somewhere along the way.

Now that doesn't necessarily mean that there is malice involved. Some folks are just ignorant of the facts or have a different opinion or were misrepresented to by someone else somewhere along the way. My grandfather, God rest his soul, went to his grave disagreeing with me about how his farm was laid...even with me showing him satellite imagery of the place.