Taxes vs. Tithe

[SaltwaterSlick]

John,
I am glad you are asking the question. I am glad to offer my perspective on this and anything else that I have knowledge and experience with. This is how we learn and it is indeed a sad state when we cannot ask a question or inquire about something without getting hammered.

I lurk on some threads that are posted trying to learn as they pertain to something I'm curious about or know nothing about and want to learn, but for sure I'm not about to jump in and ask a question only to get hammered for being so ig-nert...

Since you mentioned you grew up Catholic, I can totally understand where you are coming from. I am somewhat familiar with that situation, though I have never been a Catholic myself. Many years ago the Catholic church did not condone the parishioners studying the Bible as it was believed the common man did not have the capacity to understand its deeper meanings... consequently, many were taught what they were supposed to believe rather than trying to study and learn directly from the Scriptures... Fortunately that has changed over the years, but old traditions and styles don't die easily. My suggestion to you is that if you do not already have one, get yourself an easy to read translation in modern English and just read it, not for detail, but for the overall "what is it trying to say" kind of reading like reading a story... Then get involved in using many resources to help deepen your study and get hooked up with a Bible-teaching church with an organized Bible Study program... question everything and test it with the Scriptures, especially what you hear coming from the pulpit. That's how we Christians grow in the understanding of God's will in our lives. The more you study the more will be revealed to you, but in a real sense.

I'm happy to offer up my perspective any time. Thank you for asking.

[Kevin]

You are asking for a concrete answer to a problem that doesn't have that type of answer. I don't think God really cares at all if you give pre-tax or post-tax. It's the reason you give and why you give... And that's because Jesus died on the cross for your sins.

You keep badgering everyone for an answer that doesn't exist. And yes, you come across as badgering, confrontational and hard headed in your response. That means people return that energy back to you.

[SwampRabbit]

Okay, please - everyone who is saying "pre-taxes" please just answer the question I posed above...

If you plant 10 acres in corn and before you harvest, an acre is trampled by the neighbor's cows, do you give 10% of 10 acres, or 10% of 9 acres harvest?

I'd pray about it. I might give 1% of 1 acre, it might be 50% of 1 acre. I don't know because I don't prescribe to an equation when it comes to my generosity towards God. I'd give what felt right in my heart and thank Him for the blessings he has provided.

[SaltwaterSlick]

John, one other thought that came to me from reading your post that you put up while I was typing and it refers to what the definition of the 10% thing is and how you are asking the question.

Here's the way I see that. In today's world (which we all must live in, but do not have to be a part of), we work generally for wages. Our employer agrees to pay us dollars of a specific sum for work we do. At the end of the pay period we are credited with those dollars. Out of those dollars, we must settle our debts with the gubment, and we get what is left over. The taxes collected are from money we have earned so it is ours. We just do not get it. However for a believing Christian, I believe that 10% is to be paid off of what was promised to us, not what we are given after the gubment gets theirs. The way our laws are written, if we give to the Lord FIRST, the gubment gets less because we can deduct that from our gross income. The gubment has written man's law to allow that. The Lord God did not. He gets His off the top, first. That's my perspective on that first 10% and I also am a strong believer that tithing is indeed still an obligation for a New Testament Christian. The reason for the tithe has not changed even today. It still takes money for God's people to do God's work and Corporate worship is God ordained and to be done as a part of honoring the God of the universe. He created us originally to worship Him and fellowship with Him and He still wants that from us. The tithe is just a tiny part of worshiping Him and helping to achieve the Great Commission.

[SaltwaterSlick]

You are asking for a concrete answer to a problem that doesn't have that type of answer. I don't think God really cares at all if you give pre-tax or post-tax. It's the reason you give and why you give... And that's because Jesus died on the cross for your sins.

You keep badgering everyone for an answer that doesn't exist. And yes, you come across as badgering, confrontational and hard headed in your response. That means people return that energy back to you.

I'm really sorry you feel this way and it is totally not the perspective I have had from his questioning. I have had this discussion no telling how many times as it is a very legitimate concern of millions of folks. Please don't feel bad toward him about this. It is absolutely a valid train of thought in today's world... we're thousands of years down the road from the original writings where the tithe was introduced... times change and understanding does too. It is a good discussion to have.

[slayer]

We tithe on the gross, not the net.

[JackFlash]

This is from the OT, but it is relevant none the less. It is also where we get the philosophy of "you can't out-give God"... same principle. God clearly tells us that we will be rewarded for our gifts and our works. Our gifts and works are not a requirement for our Salvation but merely evidence of it. God through His Son will change hearts and give us a new outlook, make us out to be a new creation.

Mal_3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

A saved heart, a new heart will give you the attitude and posture of Christ. When we are in Him, we are Brothers and Sisters in Christ. If Jesus was God's only Son, born of a virgin, and we accept him, we become Sons of God with him and heirs to His promises. His promises He gave the Israelites in Old Testimate times are still valid today. Hope this help. I am NOT trying to do proof-texting out of context. This is what I believe after many years of study and Prayer.

agreed about the old testament still being valid. Jesus said I come to fulfill the law, not to replace it.

[Kevin]

I'm really sorry you feel this way and it is totally not the perspective I have had from his questioning. I have had this discussion no telling how many times as it is a very legitimate concern of millions of folks. Please don't feel bad toward him about this. It is absolutely a valid train of thought in today's world... we're thousands of years down the road from the original writings where the tithe was introduced... times change and understanding does too. It is a good discussion to have.

I don't feel bad towards him. I just think sometimes people just need to understand how they come across to others. I had a friend that used to always get bad service or was treated rudely on the phone. The reason why is because she always came across as having a chip on her shoulder.

[Wulver]

This video mentions many things in this thread. This minister has created a bunch of videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxg3YbglHM

Here is a list of all the other videos:

http://www.wwutt.com/p/wwutt-videos.html

[Limbwalker]

You keep badgering everyone for an answer that doesn't exist.

If you feel badgered, don't open the thread. Pretty simple really.

And all I'm asking at this point is to answer a simple question. I even crafted a parable to illustrate the question.

So, which is it for you? 10% of 10 acres, or 10% of 9? See, simple.

John

[eltacs]

if that's what God lays on your heart

My opinion - and all that it is ----


IT IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD !!

Give Cheerfully and from the HEART !!!
It is not a 10% true penny for penny.

Give more or less depending on how you feel.

"RELIGION v RELATIONSHIP" debate...

[Limbwalker]

Best thing to do is to dig into the Bible and read what it has to say on money, giving, and the like, and then decide what you need to do in response to that. Whenever there are varying opinions on it, go to the source and decide for yourself - between you and God. Listen to others' thoughts and opinions to add to your thought base, but ultimately the decision is between you and God.

Shane, I appreciate that, and I'm fully aware of it. Not asking anyone here to make up my mind for me, but rather just curious how others view the question of 10% of what?

My wife and I decide from time to time what we want to give, and that's between us and God and our Church.

This 10% thing is just a question I've had for a while.

[Limbwalker]

I'd pray about it. I might give 1% of 1 acre, it might be 50% of 1 acre. I don't know because I don't prescribe to an equation when it comes to my generosity towards God. I'd give what felt right in my heart and thank Him for the blessings he has provided.

Thanks for answering.

That's all I was asking! And I agree with you 100% !

[Limbwalker]

John,
I am glad you are asking the question. I am glad to offer my perspective on this and anything else that I have knowledge and experience with. This is how we learn and it is indeed a sad state when we cannot ask a question or inquire about something without getting hammered.

I lurk on some threads that are posted trying to learn as they pertain to something I'm curious about or know nothing about and want to learn, but for sure I'm not about to jump in and ask a question only to get hammered for being so ig-nert...

Since you mentioned you grew up Catholic, I can totally understand where you are coming from. I am somewhat familiar with that situation, though I have never been a Catholic myself. Many years ago the Catholic church did not condone the parishioners studying the Bible as it was believed the common man did not have the capacity to understand its deeper meanings... consequently, many were taught what they were supposed to believe rather than trying to study and learn directly from the Scriptures... Fortunately that has changed over the years, but old traditions and styles don't die easily. My suggestion to you is that if you do not already have one, get yourself an easy to read translation in modern English and just read it, not for detail, but for the overall "what is it trying to say" kind of reading like reading a story... Then get involved in using many resources to help deepen your study and get hooked up with a Bible-teaching church with an organized Bible Study program... question everything and test it with the Scriptures, especially what you hear coming from the pulpit. That's how we Christians grow in the understanding of God's will in our lives. The more you study the more will be revealed to you, but in a real sense.

I'm happy to offer up my perspective any time. Thank you for asking.

Thanks Salt! You're a wise man and I always appreciate your responses. There are a lot of misconceptions and false truth's that are spread about the Catholic church by non-Catholics, and even many Catholics! We read from the Bible every Sunday, but it's true that not all Catholics read on their own as much as they should.

I enjoy reading on my own and I have a well-worn travel Bible to show for it. It's been in my travel bag since 2004 and I read from it often. I'm not sure how much sinks in, but I know it's always good for me!

The way our laws are written, if we give to the Lord FIRST, the gubment gets less because we can deduct that from our gross income. The gubment has written man's law to allow that. The Lord God did not. He gets His off the top, first. That's my perspective on that first 10%

Great comment. That actually makes a lot of sense to me and I never thought of it that way. Kind of like harvesting that 1 acre before the cows get in it, eh?

[eltacs]

NEW LIVING TRANSLATION --

One version that is easily read ...
.