Taxes vs. Tithe

[JAB71]

gods want your first fruits.

we give based off of pre-tax, or gross

x2..... on taxes are mans law

[snappertapper]

Just for discussion...

What happens if you give 8% post tax?

[Team Roper]

Not in the context of the entirety of that passage. That single verse gets yanked out of the preceding 15 or so that discusses solely regarding unforgiveness. It has nothing to do with the receipt of blessings and has everything to do with level of forgiveness you offer will be given back to you and then some.

I disagree whole heartedly the prior verses are not limited to unforgiveness lending is also referred to as is love and judgement.

[RMRiddle]

We give 10% of our first fruits (net) in the form tithe, donations, or other giving that support the Kingdom. When we see Him at work in other areas than church and missions, we try to give beyond 10% when we are financially able. If I had the option to give my taxes (gross), I would but I don't have that option. If I receive a tax refund, I give 10% of that. Whatever I receive, He gets the first 10%.

I have seen with my own eyes remarkable works He has done with tithe and offerings. I've seen God multiply it exponentially through missions that expand that Kingdom. I've seen God grow ministries that feed the hungry, cloth the poor, and take care of widows and orphans. He is limitless.

I have found, and always will find, it difficult to out-give God.

[SaltwaterSlick]

Please show me where in the Bible this is supported?

This is from the OT, but it is relevant none the less. It is also where we get the philosophy of "you can't out-give God"... same principle. God clearly tells us that we will be rewarded for our gifts and our works. Our gifts and works are not a requirement for our Salvation but merely evidence of it. God through His Son will change hearts and give us a new outlook, make us out to be a new creation.

Mal_3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

A saved heart, a new heart will give you the attitude and posture of Christ. When we are in Him, we are Brothers and Sisters in Christ. If Jesus was God's only Son, born of a virgin, and we accept him, we become Sons of God with him and heirs to His promises. His promises He gave the Israelites in Old Testimate times are still valid today. Hope this help. I am NOT trying to do proof-texting out of context. This is what I believe after many years of study and Prayer.

[lovemylegacy]

I'm sure this topic has been covered here before, but I thought I'd throw out the question anyway since money and faith seem to be two favorite topics of discussion here.

I'm curious, when folks tithe 10% (or whatever %) are they figuring that before or after taxes, and do they account for the % of their taxes that go to do the Lord's work (feeding and housing the hungry and homeless, clothing the poor, etc.) ?

The way I see it, there are really three ways a 10% tithe could be calculated.

What says the GS?

Before taxes

[Limbwalker]

I'm guessing here that I have hit a nerve some how. I am not sure how me suggesting that the question can only be answered based on personal reflection can be so outrageous that it warrants that you make small stabs like that. That is my answer to you. Take it or leave it.

Ironically, most tidbits of wisdom direct that the answer is within.

But I want to clear something up. I am not judging you John. And neither did my priest so many years ago. The answer was within me, as it is within everybody.

I am simply saying that you need to reflect upon what feels generous to YOU. God has a way of guiding you through these questions, but it requires that you go deeper. I often ask God why he made me an engineer, yet didn't provide me the equation for life

You cannot measure generosity using an equation. You just can't. Sorry to dissapoint. By the definition of the word you just can't. The definition of the word also implies that there is no expected benefit. I do not give to receive. If the implication that there is a back end benefit, then the giving isn't a gift, it's a tax. I don't put a "church tax" into the offering basin at church. I put in our gift.

I also wasn't implying that I knew what your heart is saying. I don't. If I did, I would have gladly told you the answer for you. I was merely saying that only you know where your heart is, you just have to listen.

God's Peace John.

-Scott

The nerve you hit was the one that reacts when someone presumes they know something they don't. I'll say it again...you are completely confused as to why I ask the question. You and a few others assume it's because I'm struggling with some internal choice. I'm not, but you won't let go of that idea.

Answers like "the answer is within you" are pretty obvious and not really all that helpful. The reason I say that is because it presumes the questioner has not done any soul-searching before they asked the question. I have, and was simply curious if others had done the same and what conclusion they drew from it.

So my question is really more of a curiosity than anything, with the expectation that in the replies, I will find a perspective I'd not yet considered.

But I have to tell you, you do make it sound like you're pretty high on that horse. I'm sure that's not how you are trying to sound, but that's how it comes across.

You cannot measure generosity using an equation. You just can't. Sorry to dissapoint.

Never said I was trying to do that. Again, that's your assumption, and it's based on a bit of a "high horse" attitude from where I sit.

What I'm trying to do is understand what was meant by the "10%" and "first fruits." We don't know for sure, and it's pretty obvious since there is quite a bit of disagreement. So unless you want to take a stab at defining what and where the "10%" go, and what exactly "firstfruits" are, spare me the sermon about introspection.

John

[Limbwalker]

Okay, please - everyone who is saying "pre-taxes" please just answer the question I posed above...

If you plant 10 acres in corn and before you harvest, an acre is trampled by the neighbor's cows, do you give 10% of 10 acres, or 10% of 9 acres harvest?

[Snakelover]

I think most of us agree that it's ALL God's and that we are stewards only.

I think the heart of Limbwalker's question is this... Are we stewards of something that is compulsory to the point that we have no discretion over it? Something that is virtually only a printed number that we see on a W2 at the end of the year? I don't know the answer to that, but I enjoyed reading the opinions here.

Edit: The thing I'm referring to as compulsory is the paying of taxes and the thing I'm referring to as just a number on a W2 is the already withheld taxes. Not sure if I was clear on that.

[SaltwaterSlick]

Okay, please - everyone who is saying "pre-taxes" please just answer the question I posed above...

If you plant 10 acres in corn and before you harvest, an acre is trampled by the neighbor's cows, do you give 10% of 10 acres, or 10% of 9 acres harvest?

I must admit I'm a little confused myself about what your intentions are or what you are asking, but to answer your specific question above, I would do the following:

If I had 10 acres of corn planted, if it became damaged and some of it did not produce, the way I see it is I still have 10 acres it just produces less. Whatever it produces, the first 10% of whatever comes out of the field goes "into the storehouse as the whole tithe".

[Limbwalker]

Thanks Salt. That gets more to the point of what I'm curious about.

My intentions are my own. Nobody else needs to try and decipher, interpret or understand. For the life of me, I'm not sure why anyone would care why I'm asking the question, other than to try and "straighten me out" - which I don't feel I need on this topic.

Some days I wonder if we've come to the point where nobody is allowed to be curious anymore.

More and more often, I see those who simply ask questions out of sheer curiosity and for the sake of trying to learn something, who are told they are lost or stupid or wrong.

I grew up Catholic, and we occasionally heard about the 10% tithe, but I never got the impression it's something that was expected of us by the Church or that was dwelt on to any degree. But I do know that some religions and some congregations take it the the extreme. We've all heard the stories about turning over your W-2's, and I know plenty of folks who take the "10%" very literally.

It's the 10% of what? question that got me wondering one day...

So not having grown up around that mentality, I am just trying to understand it better, and in the process, maybe think about why I do the things I do. If that's hard for folks to understand, then maybe they just aren't as curious as I am. No biggie.

John

[Limbwalker]

I think most of us agree that it's ALL God's and that we are stewards only.

I think the heart of Limbwalker's question is this... Are we stewards of something that is compulsory to the point that we have no discretion over it? Something that is virtually only a printed number that we see on a W2 at the end of the year? I don't know the answer to that, but I enjoyed reading the opinions here.

I agree that it is ALL God's. Our money, our time, our talents. All His.

But the compulsory part isn't really what I'm curious about. It's more specific about 10% of what exactly. I've always thought you can't offer what you don't have. So it just seems to me like it should be 10% of what you actually put in the bank (the harvest), and an argument could be made by some that part of the $ that's going to taxes is being spent on the poor, the homeless, prisoners, etc. so that's also doing many of the things the Lord has asked us to do, right?

[Pushbutton2]

Okay, please - everyone who is saying "pre-taxes" please just answer the question I posed above...

If you plant 10 acres in corn and before you harvest, an acre is trampled by the neighbor's cows, do you give 10% of 10 acres, or 10% of 9 acres harvest?

Me?
At least 10% of the ten acres. Unless convicted by the Holy Spirit to give more.

[Pushbutton2]

I must admit I'm a little confused myself about what your intentions are or what you are asking, but to answer your specific question above, I would do the following:



If I had 10 acres of corn planted, if it became damaged and some of it did not produce, the way I see it is I still have 10 acres it just produces less. Whatever it produces, the first 10% of whatever comes out of the field goes "into the storehouse as the whole tithe".

What I was trying to say!

[Shane]

Best thing to do is to dig into the Bible and read what it has to say on money, giving, and the like, and then decide what you need to do in response to that. Whenever there are varying opinions on it, go to the source and decide for yourself - between you and God. Listen to others' thoughts and opinions to add to your thought base, but ultimately the decision is between you and God.