Taxes vs. Tithe

[SwampRabbit]

If you take a strictly "legalistic" approach to giving; you can really work yourself up. Do you take into account health benefits that are paid by your employer or 401K matching (maybe that is why "some" churches want to look at your W-2 which is so so so wrong in my mind that it's not even funny.) Do you account for any Birthday presents, etc. What about other gifts.

You can really punish yourself for trying to live to the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law (and the context in which it was written.) By the way as a side, certain laws were written in stone, some where not (and later revoked - yeah you shrimp eatin christians, I am talking to you/me!)

I mean think about Jesus and why he was sent by his Father... to fulfill the law and what was written. Ever notice how he broke so many of them as they were interpreted by the keepers of the law at the time?

Thank God for the Holy Spirit!

[BowSlayer]

If you take a strictly "legalistic" approach to giving; you can really work yourself up. Do you take into account health benefits that are paid by your employer or 401K matching (maybe that is why "some" churches want to look at your W-2 which is so so so wrong in my mind that it's not even funny.) Do you account for any Birthday presents, etc. What about other gifts.

You can really punish yourself for trying to live to the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law (and the context in which it was written.) By the way as a side, certain laws were written in stone, some where not (and later revoked - yeah you shrimp eatin christians, I am talking to you/me!)

I mean think about Jesus and why he was sent by his Father... to fulfill the law and what was written. Ever notice how he broke so many of them as they were interpreted by the keepers of the law at the time?

Thank God for the Holy Spirit!

Some very good points. Some I have not thought of before.

[Artos]

really...you guys have on hand experience with a church wanting to look at your W2??!! I would run!!

Our church announces that guests should not feel obligated to tithe unless they feel at home & would like to return and consider joining & being active. To me this is genuine charity & how to approach / reach a giving heart.

The income request is beyond creepy & I really hope it's a joke...never heard of such a deal.

[Shane]

I'm kinda curious on how many folks "tithe"/"offer"/"gift" whatever you want to call it, on God's creatures that you harvest?

I make it a point to share the harvest with my church. No fixed percentages, etc but I make it a point to be generous with it. For some reason, I feel it's important to me (following my heart.) It is probably because it is something I spend alot of time doing and I value the gift tremendously.

I don't think about 10% or anything, but I donate and/or give away meat every year. It's just nice to do.

I hope that someday I'll have such a giving heart that whatever it ends up being that I give will be so far beyond "10%" that it won't matter if I think about gross or net or 10% or any of that. Just be generous....

It's hard to do sometimes.

[Tmag]

really...you guys have on hand experience with a church wanting to look at your W2??!! I would run!!

Our church announces that guests should not feel obligated to tithe unless they feel at home & would like to return and consider joining & being active. To me this is genuine charity & how to approach / reach a giving heart.

The income request is beyond creepy & I really hope it's a joke...never heard of such a deal.

Same here, I've heard of it but never seen it. When our church was formed 26 years ago they built offering boxes and placed at the back of the church for tithes and offerings. We have never passed an offering plate for money in all those years.

[Limbwalker]

If you take a strictly "legalistic" approach to giving; you can really work yourself up. Do you take into account health benefits that are paid by your employer or 401K matching (maybe that is why "some" churches want to look at your W-2 which is so so so wrong in my mind that it's not even funny.) Do you account for any Birthday presents, etc. What about other gifts.

You can really punish yourself for trying to live to the letter of the law rather than the intent of the law (and the context in which it was written.) By the way as a side, certain laws were written in stone, some where not (and later revoked - yeah you shrimp eatin christians, I am talking to you/me!)

I mean think about Jesus and why he was sent by his Father... to fulfill the law and what was written. Ever notice how he broke so many of them as they were interpreted by the keepers of the law at the time?

Thank God for the Holy Spirit!

Awesome post.

[Limbwalker]

Regarding the W-2 - it's a real thing. A co-worker of mine happily explained it all to me one day, along with the "in home" visits and observations by the "church elders." It was creeping me out as he was talking, but to him and his wife, it was "the way" to live...

No thanks. Not for me.

Shane, you make a great point. I too pray for the time when we're able to give much more than 10% of our money, 10% of our time and 10% of our talents. Actually, that's part of the reason I'm looking forward to retirement, because I plan to be a fixture around the Church when that day comes.

Yea, the cow analogy may not be the best, but it's what came to mind. Could have easily happened at the time the scripture was written, so it seemed like a question that could have come up then as well.

I've always preferred folks who just say what they mean, which is where I get in trouble sometimes with religion and scripture. I look to the Church priests and ministers for guidance, and when that guidance sounds like "just do the right thing and follow your heart" it seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. With 2000+ years to study every word, there are times I wish for a little better direction.

I see the congregation as the minister/priest's customers. I don't know too many customers of consultants that would be happy if the advice they paid for sounded like "just do what you think is right..." knowing the consultant is being paid to interpret from a rule book that's been around for over 2000 years.

[Shane]

I understand what you mean, Limbwalker. But most of the time, having a heart to do what is right is much harder than checking a box to indicate that I met a minimum requirement. It's hard either way, but thinking beyond the minimum requirements usually involves putting God and others ahead of myself. I think that is the main message that Jesus tried to get across, and it's far easier said than done (for me anyway). Don't sell all the heart talk short.

[BowSlayer]

Regarding the W-2 - it's a real thing. A co-worker of mine happily explained it all to me one day, along with the "in home" visits and observations by the "church elders." It was creeping me out as he was talking, but to him and his wife, it was "the way" to live...

No thanks. Not for me.

Shane, you make a great point. I too pray for the time when we're able to give much more than 10% of our money, 10% of our time and 10% of our talents. Actually, that's part of the reason I'm looking forward to retirement, because I plan to be a fixture around the Church when that day comes.

Yea, the cow analogy may not be the best, but it's what came to mind. Could have easily happened at the time the scripture was written, so it seemed like a question that could have come up then as well.

I've always preferred folks who just say what they mean, which is where I get in trouble sometimes with religion and scripture. I look to the Church priests and ministers for guidance, and when that guidance sounds like "just do the right thing and follow your heart" it seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. With 2000+ years to study every word, there are times I wish for a little better direction.

I see the congregation as the minister/priest's customers. I don't know too many customers of consultants that would be happy if the advice they paid for sounded like "just do what you think is right..." knowing the consultant is being paid to interpret from a rule book that's been around for over 2000 years.

You're looking in the wrong place for guidance IMHO. They have no more of a connection to God than you do. Look in HIS Word and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, not another man.

[JKaggie07]

How much do you want to be blessed on?...Pre-Tax...jmo

x2 This has always been my outlook.

[Pineywoods]

Same here, I've heard of it but never seen it. When our church was formed 26 years ago they built offering boxes and placed at the back of the church for tithes and offerings. We have never passed an offering plate for money in all those years.

Same with our church...we have never passed an offering plate and just have a couple tithe and offering boxes in the back. We expect the Holy Spirit to lead the giver to give not pressure applied by man. We have one of the most giving congregations i've ever been a part of.

[Death from Above]

Regarding the W-2 - it's a real thing. A co-worker of mine happily explained it all to me one day, along with the "in home" visits and observations by the "church elders." It was creeping me out as he was talking, but to him and his wife, it was "the way" to live...

No thanks. Not for me.

Shane, you make a great point. I too pray for the time when we're able to give much more than 10% of our money, 10% of our time and 10% of our talents. Actually, that's part of the reason I'm looking forward to retirement, because I plan to be a fixture around the Church when that day comes.

Yea, the cow analogy may not be the best, but it's what came to mind. Could have easily happened at the time the scripture was written, so it seemed like a question that could have come up then as well.

I've always preferred folks who just say what they mean, which is where I get in trouble sometimes with religion and scripture. I look to the Church priests and ministers for guidance, and when that guidance sounds like "just do the right thing and follow your heart" it seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. With 2000+ years to study every word, there are times I wish for a little better direction.

I see the congregation as the minister/priest's customers. I don't know too many customers of consultants that would be happy if the advice they paid for sounded like "just do what you think is right..." knowing the consultant is being paid to interpret from a rule book that's been around for over 2000 years.

You have a skewed view of the minister/congregation relationship.

A shepard is MUCH different than a business owner and sheep are not customers.

[Limbwalker]

You're looking in the wrong place for guidance IMHO. They have no more of a connection to God than you do. Look in HIS Word and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, not another man.

I hire professional mechanics to work on my car when I can't do or understand the work myself. I hire electricians, bankers, plumbers, doctors and other specialists who have dedicated their lives to studying their trade. Why should a priest or minister be treated any differently? They are professionals and I treat them as such and expect from them many of the same things I expect from other professionals.

[Limbwalker]

You have a skewed view of the minister/congregation relationship.

A shepard is MUCH different than a business owner and sheep are not customers.

You could have offered your opinion without making a judgement on mine.

I think this is where these discussions take the wrong turn. I could respond, but then a few here who are waiting for that opportunity and will just attack me for defending myself. So I'll just say you're entitled to your opinion, as I am my own.

Thanks.

[TxAg]

Don't mean to pile on, but I know people who have been asked to provide a W-2 when joining Watermark Church in Dallas.