Originally posted by Smart
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No, I cannot point it out, I didn;t dissect the deer and take a picture of that part of the anatomy. I am not doctor, or a doctor of veterinary science, but I have hit a buck there, and have heard of others who have done the same, and the animals did not die. I don't know what the correct term is, how "full" the lungs are in different states of activity or inactivity, or exactly why it is not lethal, but I do know there is an area that will not result in a kill if that is where the shot is placed. My shot was probably an inch or so back form where the buck on page one of this thread has a scar. The difference between that shot and spining a deer isn't much, but there is a big difference in the results -
Anybody who has dressed and processed a deer knows there isn't any flesh between the cavity and the spine.
Anybody who has shot a deer or whatch a deer spook know that they can contort their body more than a female russian rtyhm gymnast at the olympics and your shot angle will look a lot less typical if you could only see it in super slow motion.Comment
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Yes anything above the green line. Hit here and he will not die.Originally posted by Smart View PostComment
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Very true but did you miss the part that "involves ribs and is below the spine" Tim?..Originally posted by ttaxidermy View Post
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Wasn't that far back, just high. We can discuss it all day, but I killed the deer two years later, so I know the original shot wasn't lethalOriginally posted by Smart View Post
and there was a scar higher up between two ribs.
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Here is my take and experienced. Void or not void. The blood trail normally sucks and alot of times if not most result in a wounding loss. And I dont mean above the spine. A 2 inch head can save the day there but what if it hits parallel with the back bone under it. That shot just flat suck when you make. So it can be called a Void, A worm hole or a **** house. It just sucks when you hit there. Personally when I have made that shot before I referred to as, ****!!! Too **** high!!!Comment
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Originally posted by BowhunterB View Post
OK....last comment on this and I'm done ...
#1 the femoral artery runs the length of the body under the spine. To pass a broadhead directly under the spine and above the lungs without cutting it would be miraculous unless you are far back enough to hit guts or are far enough to hit the neck where there are no lungs
and #2 to quote the lung doctor again...
Furthermore, I'd like to add the following comments provided to me several years ago by a pulmonologist (lung doctor) who hunted hogs with us.
"1) The lungs are not "glued" to the chest wall. That said, they are mechanically linked by fluid forces between the chest wall pleural surface and the lung pleural surface. The example I use for my students is to take a zip lock bag, put in a very small amount of fluid to "wet" the surfaces and close the bad squeezing out all the air. Then try to separate one bag surface from the other. Can't be done without ripping the bag or putting air into the system. During normal respiration, the chest wall expands a small amount and the lung expand to remain constantly in contact no matter how fast or sharply you breath in. The diaphragm moves up and down a good deal as well, but again, the lungs are in continual contact with the diaphragm. The lungs never separate from chest wall - pleural space is a "potential space" until disease causes fluid to accumulate (effusion), bleeding (hemothorax), or chest wall puncture or lung rupture (pneumothorax). There is no anatomic or physiologic void.
2) the lungs of all large mammals have recesses that reach above the horizontal lowermost reach of the spinal column. I will gladly attach computer tomographic images (CT scan) from man, pig, sheep to demonstrate that you can not design a path that goes under the spine that will not puncture at least one lung (assuming we are talking about the chest cavity). .
3) Not all pneumothoraces are lethal. Even bilateral lung puncture can be survived if there is not a large "sucking chest wound" and/or the lung slices quickly seal up with blood clot. Most of these animals will die, but a few can travel a long way even with "double lung" hits if only the tops of the lungs are sliced."
Hope this helps clear up the misconception of "The Void".Comment
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There have got to be alot of other factors and variables. Was the scar on both sides of the deer? or just the one side? Was the scar just on the hide, or was there scar tissue on the tissue between the ribs (only seen when you feild dress it?) Were you shooting elevated, or at ground level? Did the deer roll on you? Was it a pass through?Originally posted by BowhunterB View PostComment
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Sorry, I didn't have time to read the entire thesis earlier. Aparently #3 must be what occurred with the deer I shot, the shot was a pass through. The term "void" may not be factually correct, but I think it is being used to describe a non-lethal shot, regardless of physiology. I think #3 may need to be amended to say "survive" rather than "travel a long way".Originally posted by Smart View Post
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Jason, I'm not arguing, actually learning, because I've always been of the understanding that there is a "void". Is the bone directly above the spinal cord, between the back straps, not at least paralyzing when hit?Originally posted by Smart View PostComment
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all I have to add-
I personally shot and cleaned a doe that had one lung. Other was shrivled up and nothing to it. Old wound also!Comment
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My son bolted a buck in Oct 2011 in the VOID with a crossbow. He survived & the buck was later shot via rifle in November.
Besides the external scares, no internal damage occurred
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Only if the spinal cord is damaged. The bone can be damaged without paralyzing the animalOriginally posted by Cuz View PostComment
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End of story right there.... how can anyone argue with the actual cut away? this is a terrific photo to show deer parts and their connections.Originally posted by Smart View PostComment
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