The Void

[TXJIM]

The is no void, but u can hit a deer in the top of the lungs and not kill him. The lungs are not full to the top when the deer are calm. .

Not full to the top with what? Air? Blood? I am not following you.

[Smart]

The lungs are not full to the top when the deer are calm..

Do what?

[WCB]

I shot an Axis in the "dreaded void" at Bugscuffle. He was sparring the next morning.
I shot, arrow went through, he lived. Therefore a void. Or backstrapped him. Or he's related to bigfoot. Or related to the black panther...

[PondPopper]

Not entirely correct...they are held up in the thoracic cavity via pressure and fluid that forces them in the up position. The holding of the lungs via pressure and the fluid to the top of the cavity is what I meant by adhere. If they were true free floating they would collapse and fall down and it would be too much effort for the deer to breathe. They would also bounce around when the deer ran. . When the thorasic cavity is punctured the pressure/suction formed by the liquid is released and you see what you are see when gutting one or in your case, doing taxidermy work.

Dang!!! You need to change your handle to Dr.Smart!!
Impressive!

I was really just seeing if you knew what you where talking about

[Rickk]

Not full of blood. The deer will spray blood out of both sides as they flee from the shot. Almost a heavy mist. As soon as they stop they you will get two pools of blood. One on each side of them. They will walk a few steps and repeat but the pools will b smaller until there is just a few specks of blood.

[Smart]

Here is some great reading for you all at this link..... Good read on the Void

Ttaxidermy "adhere" was a bad choice of words by me if you took that to meant "glued"....What I mean is what huntresss explains here in that the lungs never leave the diaphram/cavity wall. This would also disprove that the lungs don't go all the way to the top when relaxed as stated above..

From huntress:

Furthermore, I'd like to add the following comments provided to me several years ago by a pulmonologist (lung doctor) who hunted hogs with us.

"1) The lungs are not "glued" to the chest wall. That said, they are mechanically linked by fluid forces between the chest wall pleural surface and the lung pleural surface. The example I use for my students is to take a zip lock bag, put in a very small amount of fluid to "wet" the surfaces and close the bad squeezing out all the air. Then try to separate one bag surface from the other. Can't be done without ripping the bag or putting air into the system. During normal respiration, the chest wall expands a small amount and the lung expand to remain constantly in contact no matter how fast or sharply you breath in. The diaphragm moves up and down a good deal as well, but again, the lungs are in continual contact with the diaphragm. The lungs never separate from chest wall - pleural space is a "potential space" until disease causes fluid to accumulate (effusion), bleeding (hemothorax), or chest wall puncture or lung rupture (pneumothorax). There is no anatomic pr physiologic void.

2) the lungs of all large mammals have recesses that reach above the horizontal lowermost reach of the spinal column. I will gladly attach computer tomographic images (CT scan) from man, pig, sheep to demonstrate that you can not design a path that goes under the spine that will not puncture at least one lung (assuming we are talking about the chest cavity). Someone needs to tell me how to do this with a Mac - or I can email them to someone to do it for us.

3) Not all pneumothoraces are lethal. Even bilateral lung puncture can be survived if there is not a large "sucking chest wound" and/or the lung slices quickly seal up with blood clot. Most of these animals will die, but a few can travel a long way even with "double lung" hits if only the tops of the lungs are sliced."

Hope this helps clear up the misconception of "The Void".

-C. Napper

[Smart]

Dang!!! You need to change your handle to Dr.Smart!!
Impressive!

I was really just seeing if you knew what you where talking about

LMAO....I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I read a lot..

[TXJIM]

Not full of blood. The deer will spray blood out of both sides as they flee from the shot. Almost a heavy mist. As soon as they stop they you will get two pools of blood. One on each side of them. They will walk a few steps and repeat but the pools will b smaller until there is just a few specks of blood.

The lungs are never full of blood, well unless you shoot a hole in them. Lung tissue is dense with small veins that absorb oxygen through the tissue into the blood stream. There is no difference in the amount of blood runnng through these veins if a deer is relaxed or alert. If you run an arrow through a deer's lungs they are going to bleed out internally. How much they bleed out onto the ground is determined by a number of factors but a high double lung is no less deadly than a low double lung.

[Rickk]

But I'm not a Doctor. That's just my opinion but I have seen several shot under the back bone and have survived to b killed latter and you could see the ribs broken.

[Atfulldraw]

For the record, I love me some fried void!

hammer it thin, dredge it in buttermilk, then your choice of batter and lightly crisp it.

YUUUUUUUMMYYY!

[woodsman]

entertaining thread

for argument's sake:
void - an opening or gap. ie, an area between at least two other parameters... in this case, allegedly, lungs and spine.

However, if you shoot over both the lungs and spine and hit backstrap, you didn't hit a void, you just missed your target (guilty here :-/ ). Otherwise, you're saying you hit a void between the spine and... the deer's uppermost back hair, lol. I don't think anybody would say they were aiming for one of those two things and hit a void in the middle.

I do believe there are deer that survive an upper single-lung hit, thereby giving the perception that the hunter must have hit a void. I have seen the "X" scar tissue on a deer's lung from a passthrough.

[JW]

Hey I do want to point out I've been hearing stories of deer with a one lung hit surviving. I can only assume it's a cut lung and not completely vented. Has anyone had this happen? I heard this from the 2nd person to kill the deer with the shriveled up lung NOT the shooter that one-lunged him.
Anyone else heard or seen this from the person that saw the inside of the deer?

What?! Are you crazy???? A field tip in the lungs and its a dead deer!!!
Bwahahahaha

[keep]

For the record, I love me some fried void!

hammer it thin, dredge it in buttermilk, then your choice of batter and lightly crisp it.

YUUUUUUUMMYYY!

Me too but it always tastes just like buttermilk and batter only

[keep]

What?! Are you crazy???? A field tip in the lungs and its a dead deer!!!
Bwahahahaha

Actually this post was serious. Not lungs, lung and not a puncture but a cut. That's why I'm asking if anyone has seen this personally as I haven't but do believe the couple that told me fully believe what they saw when they cleaned the deer

[keep]

Folks, look up on google image "spinous process", this is the reason for the void talk to begin with (that and the hunter not understanding a deers anatomy)
The spinal cord runs inches below the top of the back