Rules of Fair Chase for Pope and Young Clarification

[mesquitecountry]

JAMESl,

Under that circumstance your deer will still not qualify either.

[Ground Checkin' Heavies]

In a perect world it would be great for every hunter to wait for mature deer. It would benefit all hunters and the overall deer herd. Just some people get to hunt 1 or maybe two weekends a year and they want to join in the fun as well...

Then you are just out there for the "kill" rather than enjoying the hunt. That's why there is High Fence, so people don't JUST KILL! Most high fence hunters enjoy the hunt and they want to see mature deer, thus it is "fair chase" because they are pursuing the most challenging deer to hunt....The Mature Deer.

PLUS.....Exactly what Mesquite just said.

[mesquitecountry]

Good post Tony!

[Shane]

I'm with you, GCH. If all the "if it's brown, it's down" hunters would shoot does and spikes for meat (the only reason they claim to hunt) while letting branched antlered bucks live past 5 years old, the fence builders would be looking for other work. There would be no need for a high fence.

Fences serve both purposes that folks have mentioned here. Yes, they reduce (but don't eliminate) poaching. It's much harder to quickly shoot a buck across a fence and drag it across to the other side when the fence is 8 feet tall, unless you are willing to break out the wire cutters.

And, yes, high fences keep deer (most of the time) on the "right" side of the fence and away from the "brown and downers" on the other side of the fence. IMO, there's nothing at all wrong with either of those two things.

The low fence hunter that is happy to shoot the 120" 3.5 yr old buck would be lying if he/she said that he/she wouldn't have been even HAPPIER if the buck was 190" and 6.5 yrs old. The comment you ALWAYS hear is, "He needed another year or two, and I would have rather let him walk. But the neighbors shoot everything that walks, so I wacked him."

What if the neighbors would like to manage for mature deer too? Maybe they would if young deer on your side of the fence got to walk.

I'm like most people here, I think. I couldn't care less what the fence looks like if I have a nice place to hunt. But it seems backwards to me that high fence game management-oriented hunters like Travis get attacked (by some) instead of all the HUNDREDS of people that kill 1.5 yr old 6-points year in and year out. IMO, these hunters are the true ego-maniacs. They claim to be meat hunters, but they just HAVE TO kill something with antlers. They could kill does all day long any day they go hunting, but they shoot a baby buck instead.

There is nothing at all wrong with not wanting to be a trophy hunter. And the hunters that truly do just enjoy getting out and meat hunting, I say more power to you. I just wish more of them would do their part in managing the resources by eating the RIGHT deer. A doe tastes better than bucks that are 2.5 or older usually anyway. Eat two of them.

Sorry for my rant....this is off the P&Y topic. I think it's related to the high fence deal though - indirectly.

I think I"ll start my own record book and scoring system. We'll count total inches. You get to keep the total score if the buck is 5.5 years old. For every year younger than 5.5, you lose 20 points from your score. You can kill him anywhere he lives, as long as he's not tied up, trapped, drugged, tracked with a beeper, or caught with dogs.

Travis, your buck will be my first entry.

Shane

[DamonJ]

Then you are just out there for the "kill" rather than enjoying the hunt

Some people may be, but before you put the "YOU" refering to me being in it for the kill and not the hunt you should actually read my post.

[mesquitecountry]

I think I"ll start my own record book and scoring system. We'll count total inches. You get to keep the total score if the buck is 5.5 years old. For every year younger than 5.5, you lose 20 points from your score. You can kill him anywhere he lives, as long as he's not tied up, trapped, drugged, tracked with a beeper, or caught with dogs.

LOL. Now that's a scoring system! can we figure out how to measure palmation. That stuff is cool looking!

[Ground Checkin' Heavies]

Excellent post Shane!

[DamonJ]

I'm with you, GCH. If all the "if it's brown, it's down" hunters would shoot does and spikes for meat (the only reason they claim to hunt) while letting branched antlered bucks live past 5 years old, the fence builders would be looking for other work. There would be no need for a high fence.

I am all for this idea, but I can not side with people that want to push their ideals on someone.

Just because we are trophy hunters does not mean that everyone has to be.

[Ground Checkin' Heavies]

Some people may be, but before you put the "YOU" refering to me being in it for the kill and not the hunt you should actually read my post.

I meant the general "you" as in the people you are refering to, not "you" as in Woody. I read your post.

[DamonJ]

I meant the general "you" as in the people you are refering to, not "you" as in Woody. I read your post.

OK,

i just do not have a problem with someone not having time to go and enjoy the hunt as much as some and want to fill a tag from time to time..

[mesquitecountry]

Woody,

If you're referring to me I am in no way pushing my ideals on anyone. If anyone thinks that I did that I apologize. I love to kill deer as much as anyone but I try to kill the right ones. If that is at all possible. Everyone has remained relatively civil during this discussion and it's good to see that we can at least discuss this. Even though pretty much no one is going to budge on their "interpetation."







This is going to be one long offseason!

[DamonJ]

Woody,

If you're referring to me I am in no way pushing my ideals on anyone. If anyone thinks that I did that I apologize. I love to kill deer as much as anyone but I try to kill the right ones. If that is at all possible. Everyone has remained relatively civil during this discussion and it's good to see that we can at least discuss this. Even though pretty much no one is going to budge on their "interpetation."

I say that not aimed at anyone in particular. Just some people think that they only way to hunt now days is for the head gear...

I myself try to kill mature deer, but I am not going to pass a 4.5 year old that scores 160. Not where I hunt now, if we had a larger pasture and a long term lease agreement I would like to wait until they are fully matured.

[az2tx]

You are right most of us won't budge on our opinions, and here is mine, That's an awesome deer you shot, well done,
P&Y club is outdated and started when half the animals in this country were endangered, and there rules are stupid, and nets are still for fish.
High fencing doesn't mean putting animals in a pen.
I have a little over 1100 acres under high fence and my dog is in there somewhere, but I can't find him. I have an elk I have been trying to kill with a rifle for 2 years, can't find him, but he is there. I owned the place for over a year and I found a new building, I didn't know I had. My point is, a high fence doesn't mean the animal can't elude us.

Great thread you started

[Bill M]

Anybody watching OU and West Virginia?

[Shane]

I am all for this idea, but I can not side with people that want to push their ideals on someone.

Just because we are trophy hunters does not mean that everyone has to be.

Woody, no disrespect intended at all, but when my meat-hunting low fence neighbor kills the young 8-point with "potential", doesn't he decide FOR ME that we're NOT going to manage for mature deer?

Doesn't TxP&W push its management ideals on all of us when they set seasons and bag limits?

There's no way around one group's ideals being "pushed" onto the other group(s) that have different opinions about how things should be done, because there isn't absolute concensus and agreement. Sound management (hopefully) should be the deciding factor.

IMO, I believe the results achieved by quality deer management folks are pretty hard to argue with. A deer herd that is age and sex-balanced in numbers that are compatible with the range's carrying capacity is the healthiest and best deer herd you could ask for in trying to please everyone. There are always plenty of does, spikes, and cull bucks for meat hunters, kids, and new hunters. And there are always mature "trophy" deer for the trophy hunters.

I think the State is slowly moving the regs towards that, with more antler restrictions in more counties each year. I wish they'd do it faster. I also wish they could figure out a way to enforce AGE restrictions on bucks killed. Some people would whine like babies - for maybe 2 or 3 years. After that, we'd all be amazed at the number of big bucks we saw all over the place.