Rules of Fair Chase for Pope and Young Clarification

[mesquitecountry]

First off if you're not mature enough to post on this topic without being obnoxious or posting an overbearing how you hate high fence posts stay out of this thread. If you have a serious contribution to this thread then post. If you dont stay out.


Okay my question is this. How does Pope and Young define "escape proof?"

I have seen many deer clear an 8 foot High Fence. So technically wouldnt that declare an 8 foot high fence would be escapable. By my definition an escape proof enclosure would be one that would be a minimum 12 foot similar to a breeding facility.

I have been told that I should enter my buck but I cannot find any clarification on their definition.

So if it is open to interpretation then wouldnt it make sense that some have a legitimate argument for high fence to be able to enter deer by their interpretation of the rule?

[Africanbowhunter]

Pope & Young has the rules of fair chase on the entry forms & on thier web site.

High fenced game doesn't not qualify for Pope & Young. Check with them direct.

regards

[cantexduck]

Just enter it.
My money is that a 8 foot fence is deemed escape proof. I have seen a doe almost clear one. I am pretty sure she could of done it if we pushed her but we backed off.
If nothing else maybe you can get them to make their rules more clear.

[mesquitecountry]

Yes tink i know that it says on the sheet escape proof. but do you know where does it define escape proof? There are hundreds of people that have seen deer escape a high fence and I know several people that have killed a buck behind high fences that have deer entered even after P&Y changed the Ruling.

Yes the easiest thing would be to email P&Y but I figured some here would know and it would be a value to all hunters to know the real answer.

[Rattler]

Completely enclosed 8' fence is not allowed. If one side was open it is a go from others i know who have entered thier animals.

Me personally I think it is a dumb rule...along with the deductions...give an animal credit for everything it grows no matter fenced or not. That is why I will never enter my PY...plus I think you have to pay for it too.

[Africanbowhunter]

You have to Ask P & Y I am no longer a Official Measurer and they are the ones that have the final say So.

I am sure they would love to hear about suspected entries or ones that are questionable.

You would be better off to legally enter in SCI's Book. The only one qualified to respond to yoru query is a Pope & Young Measurer.


High fenced ranches would disqualify your fine buck I am afraid.

When you enter a trophy, Sir, you have to swear an affidavit.
Since Teddy Rooseveldt first wrote the original rules of fair chase about 1900 Game ranches were included.

[mesquitecountry]

I have an email in to P&Y. My question is that the rule seems so open to interpetation and nowhere is it clearly defined.

Tink I dont think you're understanding my question. Even though you swear by an affidavit if the rule is open to interpretion wouldnt it be legal?

I dont know this is all hypothetical but the rule is very undefined and wide open.

[trailboss]

Good luck on getting a reply to the email. I've emailed them on several occassions and have never received a reply.

Trailboss

[Shane]

I would imagine 8' fences are what they had in mind when they wrote the rule, but I don't know if they have an official definition of "escape proof". I've seen deer jump over 8' fences, like a lot of others have. If they were escape proof, there would be no free-roaming exotics across the state.

[Atfulldraw]

There is no such thing as escape-proof -

even on your ranch, a tree, a motivated deer, or an errant driver could open up an escape route.

(also see Titanic - as in, can't be sunk )

I think it is pretty silly, it is definitely open to interpretation and not clearly defined.

Who needs em anyway??

You shot a great buck - let em suck lemons if they don't want to include HA in the "book"

[Mudslinger]

P&Y does not give a clarification on height of a "game proof enclosure" just that size does not matter as far as acreage. It states:

"While behind game-proff fences where introduced and/or confined animals are held for commercial hunting purposes ( game farms, shooting preserves, or private operations where fees are charged for the animals harvested).

Lot of interpretation to this statement IMHO and I would be interested in the results your hear from P&Y. I am an official measurer,

What height do they consider game-proof? If you have anything over a 6' height is that considered game proof or is you have any fence over 6' and charge to hunt the property would that be considered against fair chase?

Let us know what they say, I am very interested and have never had that question brought up while scoring any animal.

[huntman933]

Not only can they jump a high fence I have seen them go under a 8 foot fence! Not sure how well your fence is maintained, but we hunted 6000 acres that had a 350ish high fence ranch that bordered 2 sides. There deer and ours moved at will from place to place.
That being said I have aways heard that if you have a 8 foot fence 1 side had to be open. I have never hunted a high fence ranch. I don't have a problem with them at all. You still have to hunt hard and make the shot to get a trophy! I think P&Y should count a deer in a high fence because I have seen for myself they can leave if they want!
Let us know if you get a response!

[mesquitecountry]

Rod,

I really dont care if I enter it I am just really curious by what they mean.

"While behind game-proff fences where introduced and/or confined animals are held for commercial hunting purposes ( game farms, shooting preserves, or private operations where fees are charged for the animals harvested).

We dont do any of that mudslinger.

I would think that if this was such a hot topic that they would have clearly defined it instead of leaving it so vague. It's almost as if they wanted to leave it vague.


Also I've always heard about the 3 sides closed and one open rule but nowhere where anyone clearly states that.

Now let me ask this question.

If we decided to put a low hog panel fence approximately 6.5 foot tall on the back corner of our property for 20 feet would that make our place essentially low fence?

There are a lot of hypotheticals and everything is so vague?

That is why i'm asking.

[Mudslinger]

Please let us know if you hear back from P&Y. When you ask the question and I looked at the Fair Chase Affidavid and reread the rules of fair chase and everything else they have in their manual, a lot seems to be vague and let up to interpretation by someone. Their reply will be interesting.

[Jaspro]

I have never looked at their application but from what yall are saying it sounds like you could probably get by also with "Don't ask Don't tell".

It would be interesting to know if the rule is in place actually for "Fair Chase" or because you can have control over their environtment by influencing protein consumption.