Can we have a hog dog discussion with facts and not emotion?

[Aggiehunter08]

I grew up with coon dogs, so I have always been pro dog BUT my one experience with hog dogs was.............

I get a phone call from a fellow
Him.... Can I run my dogs on your place
Me... No I like to bow hunt for them
Him ... I can pretty much hunt any where I want and just tell the game warden that I was just retrieving my dogs
Me ... If you want your dogs, keep them off my place. If I catch them I will haul them to the pound
Him... It is awful dry, I would hate to see your place burn off

Me... WOW Just how big of a fellow are you anyway
Him... I will hunt your place and good luck catching me. And hung up

I can only go off my own experience but I have had other hog dog guys tell me they can hunt anywhere they want as long as they don't take a gun.

So put me down as having a low opinion of hog dog guys

Unbelievable. The problem is there is a decent percentage of hog dog hunters that are low life rednecks just like Buff described. Are there good guys out there sure. Heck even some of the so called "hog trappers" can be on the rowdy side. You're fighting an uphill battle.

[muzzlebrake]

All hog dogging should be confined to East Texas where game laws and trespass do not apply. At least in the minds of some. Sorry, that's all I got.

[TX_Hoghunter]

This is the problem. You just admitted you have trespassed on people's property. Hog doggers hunt small properties when they know there is a good chance of their dogs winding up on property where they don't have permission. You aren't doing me a favor by removing hogs on my property. I like to hunt them. It's very simple. Enjoy your sport but stay the **** off my property. If you can't do that then don't release the hounds.

I wouldn't mind a trespass by dog law. Not just hog dogs but any dog. It is the owners responsibility to contain their animals. If you can't contain your dog on your property don't release the hound.

I respect your opinion. In my 40 years have I trespassed to retrieve my dogs? Yes. Have I tried to find the owners and notify them? Yes. Has it ever lead to a problem with any of the land owners? No. Now I live in a rural area and a lot of the people around here are related to me some way or another so maybe that is it. How big does a place need to be before I turn loose the dogs? I have turned the loose in the middle of a 25,000+ acre place and they once got off of it. They bayed a ****ed big boar hog that has scars all over his rear end from where dogs had tried to stop him before. He was not stopping until he was just too tired to take another step. I really do respect your opinion but if you shot a deer that leave your place I hope you apply the same judgement you are applying here and you just leave your trophy there.

-john

[AntlerCollector]

I know of a few hog doggers perfectly willing to pay the fine and keep on doing it. They know not to have a gun on them so a few caught hogs will cover any fine they get.

[C.Read]

Either I need more coffee or didn't eat enough for breakfast. I read the title as "Can we have a hot dog discussion with facts and not emotion?" and for a split second was thinking there are people out there that really care a lot about eating hot dogs.


As for the real subject, I've lived in SETX my whole 42 years of life and have had 1 run in with dogs while in the woods and that was several years ago on a small lease I had.

[TX_Hoghunter]

Hey I would like to applaud everyone for being civil. It seems the biggest issue is probably liability and trespass. I kind of figured it would be but it does not hurt to discuss these type of things in my opinion. Like I said I have never had any issues with a land owner of a game warden. We have never cut a lock or a fence. We have never driven onto anyone place. We only walk. We do not carry guns. We do our lever best to keep the dogs where there are supposed to be. I also know there are game wardens that are reading this and I have nothing to hide. If you want to reach out to me I have no problems there and you are more than welcome to come hunt you us if you want too. We will not start again until after deer season. Once again thanks for everyone's honest opinions.

-john

[TX_Hoghunter]

Either I need more coffee or didn't eat enough for breakfast. I read the title as "Can we have a hot dog discussion with facts and not emotion?" and for a split second was thinking there are people out there that really care a lot about eating hot dogs.


As for the real subject, I've lived in SETX my whole 42 years of life and have had 1 run in with dogs while in the woods and that was several years ago on a small lease I had.

I would like to nominate the above post for the best reply of the day award....lol

[BayouCat]

My experiences with people running dogs has been very similar to what has been already addressed. If someone wants dogs on their property, that is their business, but I do not want them on mine and that should be equally respected. That goes for people running their hog dogs, their pet dogs, hoards of feral cats, or anything for that matter that is not restrained within their property lines. I could care less about deer and hogs. I don't want people or their stuff on my place, and I have every right to enforce that.

[RiverRat1]

In all seriousness can we have an intelligent fact based discussion on hog hunting with dogs? Granted I have been catching hogs with dogs since the 80's so in my opinion it can be done properly without issues. I am sure others have a different opinion and that is perfectly fine but I would like to discuss it. Hog hunting is just like everything else. It can be done right or it can be done wrong. My fear is some folks on here have experienced it done wrong and they apply that bad experience to all hog hunters. That type of logic is the same that the anti-gun crowd will use on us. 1.One idiot does a mass killing with an "assault" weapon and the rest of us are now somehow connected to that. They feel we should all lose our guns based on the behavior of someone else. Here is what my experience has shown me. I have hog hunted with dogs nearly every place that I have leased for deer hunting. The exception was a place in the hill country that did not have any hogs on it. I have killed nice mature deer on every single one of those places. 2. In fact the thinning out of the hog population has done nothing except improve the deer hunting. In some cases significantly. Hogs will kill baby fawns, they will compete for the limited food supply, and in some cases will run deer off of the food completely. How can any of that be good for the deer herd? The answer is it is not. Did some of y'all have "hog dogs" that chased deer or chased cows? If so that is a problem but it is correctable and it also does not run the deer out of the county. In some states the still run deer with dogs. I have never done it myself but from talking to those that do apparently the deer often run in circles and when done correctly it does not relocate or hurt the deer hunting at all. I assume if you did it 24/7/365 it would. The facts are that hogs do billions of dollars of damage to the environment. 3. While they can be good to eat and fun to kill this country would currently be better off if none existed. Does anyone disagree with that? They are also highly intelligent and hard to eradicate. There is no one size fits all solution. I like to catch them with dogs but that does not mean I hate people who trap them, who use a thermal on them, who kill them from a helicopter. 4. I am a little hesitate on the use of poison but that is because I do not trust people to do it correctly. So is the problem the fact that the dogs might get after a hog and cross a fence line? If it is that is fine but what is the best solution? In the areas that I hunt I try to ask all of the neighboring land owners what they want me to do if the dogs get on them and bay a hog. Do they want me to kill the hog? catch the hog? turn the hog loose again? give them the hog? I am willing to do whatever I can to make this work for all of us. I have never had an issue with a land owner or a game warden. I have never tried to hide from anyone. In fact I have gone to folks houses to apologize and inform them that we ended up on their places when they never knew 5. we had been there. We do not cut fences or climb over fences. We do not rut up pastures. We do not carry firearms with us when we go. We do not throw down trash. We always try to leave the place in better condition then we have found it. Is it simple the fact that don't want anyone to ever get on their place? 6. If so that is fine. I will ask you this question if you shot the biggest buck of your life and it managed to get on your neighbors place would you be perfectly fine with just leaving the deer? I mean the other land owner has the right to not let you retrieve it. Would you be fine with that or would you hate him the rest of his life? So once again I am not trying to stir up hate but would lie to discuss why some people hate hog hunters. I do not know that I can change your mind and you probably cannot change mind but you never know for sure until you try. Let me know the problems that some have experienced. There are no 100% right or 100% wrong answers to this. I am legitimately wanting to 7. discuss it without hate. Any takers?

Thanks.

I am guessing you are correct. 8. If there was no liability issue would things change? If the hunter was just going to retrieve their dog without doing any damage would most people be ok with it? I know land owners right now that would let us hunt if they had no liability issues. Would signing some kind of a release of liability form help?

-john

So much to reply to. I numbers some bolded lines.
1. Numbers do not compare. People that do mass shootings versus gun owners are like 100,000 to 1 Hog doggers that "do it wrong" in some way are more like 4 to 1. Sure you can argue more are good and some say more are bad but you get the point.
2. This has ZERO to do with the discussion IMO. Doesn't matter because hunting is about how one feels while in the woods. If they know dogs chased pigs recently and then see nothing they will blame the hog dogs. Nothing will ever change that. Try convincing someone who sees zero deer that the poachers or trespassers LEO removed from their property were not the cause of seeing no deer.
3. Sure we'd be better off without them but that will never happen. We do have them. Just like people finally accepted we have carp in our waters. Damage they cause is irrelevant also.
4. So you understand that people are stupid. But you want other people to take what appears to be one of the worst groups of hunters (yes some are good) and just trust them?
5. "We, we, we" Doesn't matter what you do, it matters what hog doggers in general do.
6. Apples to oranges. I want hunting legally and the buck crossed a fence line. Not even sure how that relates to letting dogs chase game across fence lines.
7. No hate here. I do see some hate from posters already. But you asked for what they have experienced.

8. Absolutely not. I simply do not want dogs on my property chasing game. For many reasons. Your seemingly simple questions can all be flipped back onto you. Would you be ok with trespassers doing zero damage crossing your property? What if they sign a liability release? LOL See how dumb that sounds?

Landowners (most) worked their entire lives to own property. They can run their land how they want even if it means doing bad things to the land.

The solution? Get all dog doggers in line.. will never happen. Only hunt really large properties? It's NOT, in any way, the landowners responsibility to keep hog dogs off their property. This entire debate is 100% on the dog dogging group to get their sport in check. They need to fix things, not other people.

[M16]

I respect your opinion. In my 40 years have I trespassed to retrieve my dogs? Yes. Have I tried to find the owners and notify them? Yes. Has it ever lead to a problem with any of the land owners? No. Now I live in a rural area and a lot of the people around here are related to me some way or another so maybe that is it. How big does a place need to be before I turn loose the dogs? I have turned the loose in the middle of a 25,000+ acre place and they once got off of it. They bayed a ****ed big boar hog that has scars all over his rear end from where dogs had tried to stop him before. He was not stopping until he was just too tired to take another step. I really do respect your opinion but if you shot a deer that leave your place I hope you apply the same judgement you are applying here and you just leave your trophy there.

-john

I have a good relationship with my neighbors. I can't think of one that wouldn't allow me to trail a wounded deer on their property. Even though they would tell me go ahead and you didn't need to call. They can expect the same response from me. I wouldn't do it unless I contacted them first. It's called respecting their property. If I had one that didn't it's my tough luck. They don't have to allow you recover a deer.

There are "trespass by cattle" laws on the books in closed range counties. You can be held financially responsible for your cows getting on someone else's property. There should be the same law for other animals including dogs.

[sqiggy]

One of our neighbors has a high fenced game ranch. He sells top dollar hunts. Do not get caught on his place without permission or you will go to jail. He also owns 150 acres just outside the HF. I have caught his head guide and 3 others on our place. Of course they said they were looking for a dog. My brother gave him a fair warning not to get caught again. Gave him his phone number and said next time you need to look for a dog, call me and I will come out and help you look. That was about 6 years ago and we still continue to see signs of hog hunting with dogs. Just haven’t been able to catch them in the act. Although we get pics of dogs on our cameras all the time.
So, I’m not against running hogs with dogs but you can’t do it on 150 acres. So all the run ins that me and my brother have dealt with, hog doggers (those around here) think they can go anywhere their dogs goes. Those are the facts.

[rebelbow]

i've run into some courteous hog hunters but unfortunately i've run into more that aren't. don't understand the arrogance and entitlement of some of the younger ones. probably never received a proper butt whooping in their life is what i suspect.
in east texas i think it should be illegal to run hogs during oct.1 to dec 30.
would cut down on a lot of problems.
also with all the technology available its not that hard to find a landowners number. if he won't give permission to let you go get your dogs go back later to pick them up.

[S-3 Ranch]

Over the years we’ve had to take a adverse reaction to any kind of trespassing from hog dog guys, canoe riders, duck hunting, fishing, trespassers just don’t seem to respect our property, leaving us trash to pick up, damaging the levees & fences & gates,
not to mention the numerous feral cats and stray dogs the neighbors have.
permission and courtesy would go a long way with me

[TX_Hoghunter]

I have a good relationship with my neighbors. I can't think of one that wouldn't allow me to trail a wounded deer on their property. Even though they would tell me go ahead and you didn't need to call. They can expect the same response from me. I wouldn't do it unless I contacted them first. It's called respecting their property. If I had one that didn't it's my tough luck. They don't have to allow you recover a deer.

There are "trespass by cattle" laws on the books in closed range counties. You can be held financially responsible for your cows getting on someone else's property. There should be the same law for other animals including dogs.

I think we would already be held responsible for any damages cause by out dogs. I might be wrong. I am sure your neighbors would say it is fine I was playing the what if game. What if they did say no. Maybe one turned into a vegan or something. Just trying to find a situation more relatable to you. When me dogs get bayed they might stay for 12 to 24 hours so waiting as some have suggested sometimes is not a great option. My whole post is more of a what if since I have no issues with any of my neighbors either. Once again thanks for the response.

-john

[TX_Hoghunter]

One of our neighbors has a high fenced game ranch. He sells top dollar hunts. Do not get caught on his place without permission or you will go to jail. He also owns 150 acres just outside the HF. I have caught his head guide and 3 others on our place. Of course they said they were looking for a dog. My brother gave him a fair warning not to get caught again. Gave him his phone number and said next time you need to look for a dog, call me and I will come out and help you look. That was about 6 years ago and we still continue to see signs of hog hunting with dogs. Just haven’t been able to catch them in the act. Although we get pics of dogs on our cameras all the time.
So, I’m not against running hogs with dogs but you can’t do it on 150 acres. So all the run ins that me and my brother have dealt with, hog doggers (those around here) think they can go anywhere their dogs goes. Those are the facts.

Agree with you 100%