Shooting form - continuous motion through the shot

[twillgo]

Hello all,

I asked about this on Leatherwall and got many and varied responses.

I read parts of "Precision Archery" by Steve Ruis online where he said that finger shooters should employ a "live release" meaning that the draw hand NEVER stops moving/pulling to the rear during the entire shot sequence, as opposed to a "dead release" where there is a pause and the draw hand does not move upon release, such as using a mechanical release in compound shooting.

He equated it to many other sports where one does not stop a motion after it is begun, such as throwing a ball, hitting a tennis ball, hitting a golf ball, etc. His question, "Why should our sport be different than all others?"

In my shot sequence, I come to anchor (web of draw hand over the point of jaw under the ear), pause, apply back tension, pull through release.

If I understand what he is saying correctly, one should not take this pause, at anchor, but perform a continuous motion all the way from the start of the draw through the release and follow through

I tried this during my practice session this morning and did pretty well, as long as my draw was very slow, but was inconsistent. I think much more practice will be needed in order for the release after touching anchor to become fluid. This also begs the question, will this method induce target panic?

I also corrected my stance by opening it up to about 45 degrees after I started hitting my face with the string. Turn from target, close eyes, turn back to target, draw, anchor, open eyes, note your orientation. I was wide right with my almost 90 degree stance.

Let me know your thoughts and experiences concerning these things.

Thanks.

Todd

[DRT]

My hand moves back whether recurve or compound. Compound is more pronounced because my back tension is holding at the wall. But just because my fingers relax and release the string doesn't mean my hand doesn't move. That same back tension is used is a trad bow draw and that's what pulls the arm and hand through the release.

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[twillgo]

DRT,

Thanks for the response. I think I'm doubting my shot sequence after reading a portion of the book and I shouldn't. Watching some Rick Welch videos, he teaches his students to pause at anchor and check your back tension just as I am doing.

Probably making much ado about nothing, as I do often!

All I really needed to do was open my stance so that I am naturally pointing at the target and eliminate hitting my face with the string which was not helping my appearance!

Todd

[Junkers88]

I must have agonized about this for months until I figured I'd just do what felt "right" for me. A "dead release" is when upon release the string hand remains in place. As in there is no back tension involved, the hand just remains "dead in place". I've done that, heck I did that for quite a while. I tried pulling through my anchor to release and was stupidly inconsistent. I watched Youtube over and over again looking at vidoes of guys pulling through, holding at anchor, pausing for several seconds to gain a proper sight picture/window, etc.. I taped match sticks to my riser for sights. I put tape on the back of my riser with little marks on it to use as sights. Gap shooting, point shooting, gap/point, instinctive, gap/instinctive, gap/wild-butt-guessing/point-somewhere-the-hell-out-there, anything other than bolting sights to my bow which I refuse to do. Brother I've tried all kinds of tricks to get better at this faster. None of it worked. It's nauseating trying to root through all that to find what's "right". What I have learned, and take this for what it's worth as I've only been at this for under a year, is that you need to do what feels right for you. Period.

As far as pulling through the anchor goes. Well I'll tell you what I do and let you decide if it works or not. I come to full draw and draw a bit past my anchor point then settle back into it. My anchor point (yes I tried middle finger to corner of mouth, fletching touching my nose, pinkie finger extended and touching my chin, one anchor point, two...three.... four.) is the first knuckle of my thumb, not where it connects to my hand, stuffed in the pocket under my ear. I draw past my ear with that knuckle and then let it settle forward into that pocket. That means that I draw farther than the 28" stated for my bow at the designed weight. My draw length at anchor is about 29.5. I shoot 31.5" arrows and just miss hitting my bow hand with broadheads when I go past anchor to settle back in. My string hand relaxes when my thumb settles into that pocket and my back takes over holding the weight of the bow. Once there I compress my back to complete the shot. I don't sight, I don't have a sight window in my riser I use. I just look at where I want the arrow point to impact and compress my back. It rarely goes exactly where I'm looking but it happens often enough to keep me working on it. My bow arm is straight. Shoulder couched, elbow locked, wrist locked and my bow hand is open and relaxed. I only close my bow hand at the last possible point when I'm truly anchored and then I only close my index finger to gently curl the bow. After release my string hand ends up on my shoulder and the bow tilts gently forward. I hold that until a second or so after the arrow hits my target.

Having said all that do what feels right for you. Just ensure that you do the same thing each time.

Oh and have fun with it, it is a sport after all.

Richard the Rookie.

[Junkers88]

Oh and as far as hitting yourself in the face with the string goes. I still do that once in a while but when I do I know that I've rushed something and closed up my stance. Also look for pain in the ring finger of your string hand. I get that when I rush and torque that hand trying for a quick shot or have used my shoulder and arm instead of my back to hold the weight of the bow.

Richard.

[twillgo]

I must have agonized about this for months until I figured I'd just do what felt "right" for me. A "dead release" is when upon release the string hand remains in place. As in there is no back tension involved, the hand just remains "dead in place". I've done that, heck I did that for quite a while. I tried pulling through my anchor to release and was stupidly inconsistent. I watched Youtube over and over again looking at vidoes of guys pulling through, holding at anchor, pausing for several seconds to gain a proper sight picture/window, etc.. I taped match sticks to my riser for sights. I put tape on the back of my riser with little marks on it to use as sights. Gap shooting, point shooting, gap/point, instinctive, gap/instinctive, gap/wild-butt-guessing/point-somewhere-the-hell-out-there, anything other than bolting sights to my bow which I refuse to do. Brother I've tried all kinds of tricks to get better at this faster. None of it worked. It's nauseating trying to root through all that to find what's "right". What I have learned, and take this for what it's worth as I've only been at this for under a year, is that you need to do what feels right for you. Period.

As far as pulling through the anchor goes. Well I'll tell you what I do and let you decide if it works or not. I come to full draw and draw a bit past my anchor point then settle back into it. My anchor point (yes I tried middle finger to corner of mouth, fletching touching my nose, pinkie finger extended and touching my chin, one anchor point, two...three.... four.) is the first knuckle of my thumb, not where it connects to my hand, stuffed in the pocket under my ear. I draw past my ear with that knuckle and then let it settle forward into that pocket. That means that I draw farther than the 28" stated for my bow at the designed weight. My draw length at anchor is about 29.5. I shoot 31.5" arrows and just miss hitting my bow hand with broadheads when I go past anchor to settle back in. My string hand relaxes when my thumb settles into that pocket and my back takes over holding the weight of the bow. Once there I compress my back to complete the shot. I don't sight, I don't have a sight window in my riser I use. I just look at where I want the arrow point to impact and compress my back. It rarely goes exactly where I'm looking but it happens often enough to keep me working on it. My bow arm is straight. Shoulder couched, elbow locked, wrist locked and my bow hand is open and relaxed. I only close my bow hand at the last possible point when I'm truly anchored and then I only close my index finger to gently curl the bow. After release my string hand ends up on my shoulder and the bow tilts gently forward. I hold that until a second or so after the arrow hits my target.

Having said all that do what feels right for you. Just ensure that you do the same thing each time.

Oh and have fun with it, it is a sport after all.

Richard the Rookie.

Fantastic response, Richard! Honest and entertaining at the same time. I believe we are two peas in a pod. I've tried a lot of different things trying to become consistent. The best improvement that I made was to move my anchor back below my ear with the "C" of the hand on my jawbone point from my old anchor, middle finger to corner of the mouth. My accuracy got much better after that almost instantly.

My DL is 29.5" anchoring there and I'm shooting 30.5" Douglas Fir arrows made by me. They seem to be well tuned.

Also, as you do, I settle into the anchor and pause a second or two, ensuring my grip is right and the anchor is right where I want it, then pull back to release....this is more really just thinking it than some big movement. My hand ends up just a bit back after release. I don't really feel the back tension per say, as I can when I'm just concentrating on squishing my should blades together while imagining that I'm holding a pencil there. I can't really do that while drawing the bow, but those muscles have to be working because it is impossible draw a bow and not use them.

My shooting has been a little off the last few days and I started hitting my face with the string for some reason, so I started doubting and reading and then thinking I'm doing it all wrong. I was hitting like 5 bulls out of 9 arrows just last week. My longbow seems to be more accurate for me than the recurves right now.

Opening up my stance a little cured the string on face, and I am "naturally" pointing at the target now. That is good.

Anyway, like you said, I need to just do what is comfortable for me and not try to make a bunch of changes. I need to take the advice of, "Don't worry, be happy" and just have a lot of fun.

Thanks.

Todd

[twillgo]

Oh ***** Now I've done it.

Howard Hill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rel4Q_VT_Fo

[Bisch]

There is no right or wrong. There is only consistent and inconsistent! If you can be consistent, you will be good. It is a lot like golf, for sure. Even the different pros have very different swings. You have to watch what others do and find a system that works for you.

Bisch

[CRM_95]

There is no right or wrong. There is only consistent and inconsistent! If you can be consistent, you will be good. It is a lot like golf, for sure. Even the different pros have very different swings. You have to watch what others do and find a system that works for you.

Bisch

I never really realized how true this was. I've watched people shoot compounds all my life, and basically their form looks the same. Watching trad guys shoot is totally different. I've never seen 2 that do everything exactly alike. And I really don't know what I do...people ask me questions all the time and I can't really answer them because I focus so much on the target everything else goes to auto pilot I guess...I just know what my anchor point it, because that's what I focused on the most for so long learning to shoot. I know when it's right, and I can immediately tell if it's wrong, and if it's wrong I let down and draw again.

[jerp]

What Bisch said. You see good shooters who hold at anchor almost as long as a compound guy and other good shooters who practically snap-shoot. I am more likely to screw up the shot by holding too long, as opposed to releasing too quickly. That is probably because of my inability to hyper-focus on my spot for more than a second or two. I have to "zoom-in" visually as I am drawing then release/pull through after a slight pause when I hit anchor. There is a kind of rhythm I fall into when I am shooting well - other days I'm just not feeling it.

[twillgo]

Thanks for weighing in, fellows. I respect all of your opinions. I guess it comes down to repetition until you simply feel the shot. After watching that John Schultz video about Howard Hill's shooting style, I can certainly appreciate the viability for hunting. He said Howard would make them compete their shot from swing to loose in four seconds, as that may be all the time you get to make a kill.

Very interesting about handling of arrows by their nock and nocking above the nock point on the string for conservation of motion. They are shooting split finger, of course and seem to adopt a more open stance where they are facing the target more squarely with both eyes, which may produce better depth perception.

Release is dead rather than live. Cant the bow and head slightly toward the string. More can't for downhill shots. Seems to make a lot of sense. Not the least of which both Howard Hill and Byron Ferguson are both country boys from Alabama!

I've been going the other way toward more Olympic style archery than what they did. I think I'll try to steer myself back in their direction to see what comes of it. I'm not that far in the game to try something different to come up with what works for me.

Todd

[SwampRabbit]

I am no expert. I shoot terribly. I don't win, nor do I finish high in 3D shoots. If I were to look at the winners in those categories, I'd be confused as to what to do. They all do it differently.

However, I do believe there is "good" form that helps you be consistent and "bad" form that allows for inconsistencies to creep in.

For instance, a stance and posture that prevents your body from bracing at anchor if you do pause, will allow for a lot of creeping on the shot. For the most part, if you just "touch and go" at your anchor then collapse isn't normally a problem. However, making sure you are able to let go at the same point every time is key with that style. Some folks need to settle in, even if for a split moment, and some just want to draw through. The key of course is consistency.

Another critical piece is your release in general. Even if you settle in vs touch-and-go, how you let go of the string matters. I think the biggest reason I have a problem with the touch-and-go is that I can't get a consistent release. I keep moving my hands and have to remember to let go, vs trigger a release and force my hand open. The release is always jerky using that method, for me. When I pause, then I can relax my grip and let it fly. My hand recoils back, but not a lot. My hand touches my earlobe. It moves maybe an inch or two... it doesn't not come flying back like a lot of folks and video seem to show (exaggerate???)

[ballgame]

There is no right or wrong. There is only consistent and inconsistent! If you can be consistent, you will be good. It is a lot like golf, for sure. Even the different pros have very different swings. You have to watch what others do and find a system that works for you.

Bisch

This

[60 Deluxe]

My best shooting happens when my string arm comes in line, the tension is in my back, and I take a good look down the arrow at the point that I want to hit. Without the pause I will almost always have my hand floating away from my face and the arrow will hit left of where I want it to hit. I have to consciously run through the steps that I have determined make a good shot and I cannot do that with my hand moving.

[twillgo]

Like everyone has mentioned, archery is a very personal thing. What works for one will not work for another. Just need to find the way that works for me and drive it home with repetition.

I appreciate the info from all who have chimed in. Hope to see many of you at the TBOT shoot in Fredericksburg on July 15th!

Todd