The shoot that pushed me over the edge

[bountyhunter]

Thanks for the momentum calculations and comparisons.

I have always been more concerned with putting the arrow where it is supposed to be. That is why I am so **** about my shooting and form. Anytime that I have tried shooting heavier arrows my accuracy has decreased substantially. I think the best option for me right now may be to go up in bow weight so that I can shoot a heavier arrow (600-650grn) at a respectable speed. That should increase both my KE and momentum. That may be overkill, but I need to retain confidence in my shooting and regain confidence that my equipment is going to get the job done.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

You have plenty of bow to shoot heavier arrows, they just have to be tuned correctly. You have to go with a stiffer shaft and a heavier head. If you go with a Gold Tip 7595 leave it full length and put a 300g point up front I bet you would be just as accurate as you are today.

[Txnrog]

Good luck with it, whichever way you decide to go. Each has their tradeoffs. Your accuracy with a heavier arrow 20yrds & under shouldn't suffer unless there's a tuning issue. However, once you start getting out there, the additional drop can really make it difficult to be consistant.

[Straitshot]

I had a very similar experience but with a different outcome. I shot a buck at about 18 yards broadside. The arrow hit about where your friends arrow was but about 2" lower. When the arrow struck there was a very loud crack and I only got about 8 to 10 inches of penetration. I thought for sure I woud at least get the arrow coming out the opposite side, but when the deer ran off he ran straight away for a distance and I could see most of the arrow had not penetrated. Because the area had recently been cleared I was able to watch the deer run full out for about 250 yards before going down. When I got to him and field dressed him I found I had struck a rib dead center. I did get enough penetration that as the deer ran off the arrow was moving up and down a lot and consequently while penetrating the lung on the side facing me it sliced up the lung on the off side also. I shoot a 50#@28" recurve, a 29" 2115 XX78 super slam with 150 grain Muzzy 2 blade Buzzcut and a 100 grain brass insert up front making it 250 grains total and I wish it were 300 grains. I am convienced I was able to get enough penetration because of the weight up front I had. I really believe if I had been shooting with only 124 grains up front like I used to I would have most likely lost the deer. Several years ago I had a 145 grain Bear Super stainless broadhead center a rib on a deer at 10 yards. The 145 was my total weight up front and I got only about 3" penetration. The outcome of that experience is what convienced me I needed more weight up front. The deer I took this year may be my best to date. I would sure think long and hard about what the guys before me are telling you about FOC and broadhead selection. Take your time and regain your confidence. You have another year before deer season again.

Shoot straight, Louis

[Bisch]

Not to get off subject...but... nice deer Straitshot!

Bisch

[Stykbow]

Hey Straitshot,
Nice buck !!!
Nice bow also, is it a Schafer ?
Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[TradAg02]

I got the answers I was looking for, so yall aren’t hijacking.

Nice deer, I must have missed that one on the trad harvest page.

[Ol Man]

I get 45.31 Lb. of Kinetic energy from my Morrison - shooting a 495 grain arrow at 203 FPS.
8.25 GPP -60 lbs. draw weight! (Course I draw 29")


Yes this bow does shoot that fast!! Foam and Carbon limbs - woohoo!!!

[EnW]

I thought I would dredge this thread up because of the valuable info on momentum vs. kinetic energy and the tendency of a heavier arrow to retain momentum.

I've got a Bob Lee recurve that I recently setup with some full-length beman 340's w/175 gr points that shoot great and I also have some full-length easton super slim 400 acc's w/125 gr points that shoot equally as good. I was considering hunting with the lighter arrow with a 125 grain point because I prefer its trajectory over a heavier arrow and heavier point. My idea of "heavy" is the beman with a total arrow weight of 552 gr as opposed to the easton 465 gr "light" arrow. I was also a little disconcerted with the 157fps chronograph speed of the heavier arrow. After digesting the info here I decided that I will stick with the heavier arrows. It helps too that I successfully hunted the last couple years with my longbow while shooting a 562 grain arrow, so I do have confidence in the heavier arrows.

I skimmed through this thread when it was originally posted but it wasn't until after reading it again present day that I realized it is applicable to my dilemma. My whole premise for considering the lighter arrows is that I love to shoot 3d and as stated earlier, I prefer its flatter trajectory, and I wanted to shoot the same arrows for 3d and hunting. I figured I would have more confidence in my equipment if I weren't switching from one arrow to another throughout the year. It seems that I just need to commit myself to the heavier arrows.

[Draco]

I think you're worrying too much about your set up EnW. If you like your light set up then go with it. On a broad side shot, it doesn't take much to shoot through a deer, and hunting over corn, you can wait for a perfect broad side shot.

What happened to TradAg02 was a fluke, a stroke of bad luck and that's all. It happens. Deer aren't target bales, they move, body parts contract at any sound, and angles of contact change. He was 1" away from a quick kill. No reason to change any thing, get back on the horse and show it whos boss.

My brother in law shot a doe down in south Texas and the arrow hit a limb. The arrow hit the doe about 6" above her hind hoof. She ran about a hundred yards and layed down. After about 15 minutes she layed her head down and died. He hit the femoral artery and even that low it still killed her, an extreme stroke of good luck. You can't fight luck.

[Live2Hunt]

A little rain comes into every season, but as with most things this will pass. Take a breather, shoot whatever keeps your passion alive and just be...

I have a ton of respect for a man that steps up like you have done!

[Foam Collector]

Talked to Rick last week about your upcoming Montana mule deer hunt. He told me about that shot, and the outcome on this deer, and that you started shooting a compound. Nothing wrong with that shot, or the fact you are going wheels. Just a stroke of bad luck on that particular day.
I am shooting compounds now, just my personal preference for the time being. I have been full circle between longbow, recurve, and compound more than once. Love em all, but I am more at peace with traditional gear. I'll be back someday but for now I'm good!!!!!!!
Check out post #157, Broadhead Damage Thread ,pg 4 ATC. Doe kill with pics of similar shot but from a compound, major deflection here from rib contact.
Best of luck this year to you, have some fun in Montana with your dad and Rick,

Brad >>>------->

[smokin feathers]

I think if you would get out in the yard with a chrono and actually see how little a 100gr of arrow weight makes in velocity out of a trad bow you would be surprised. Using 2 arrows one weighing 525 and the other weighing 656gr i got the following results

525gr 656gr

62" 46@28 acs 161 147

58" 58 @ 28 robertson raven stick 168 154

62" 53@28 sarrels sierra 165 153

60" 56@29 fedora 560 165 152

60" 50@28 bear kodiak 158 145

64" 61@28 redneck d shape 172 159

62" 42@28 checkmate hunter II 150 138

there is some numbers now will somebody take an average and figure out the % increase in momentum while I go cool off!!! i can say at huntin distance out of most of the bows I can not tell a difference between the 2 arrows other than the heavier one is way quieter and harder to get out of the target because of increased penetration. will also add that my morrison that bmac now has with 62" carbon foam limbs 50@28 would shoot the 656gr arrow 168fps and 180 with the 525.

Came out to an average of 10fps difference out of these 7 bows with 131gr of arrow difference.

[bm22]

thats about what i found to be true when i used m.e.b's chrono a couple years ago. about 10-15 fps for alittle over 100 grain. i gained most of it back going to a skinny string on my recurve, much quieter all the way around.

[BmacBmac1]

I think if you would get out in the yard with a chrono and actually see how little a 100gr of arrow weight makes in velocity out of a trad bow you would be surprised. Using 2 arrows one weighing 525 and the other weighing 656gr i got the following results

525gr 656gr

62" 46@28 acs 161 147

58" 58 @ 28 robertson raven stick 168 154

62" 53@28 sarrels sierra 165 153

60" 56@29 fedora 560 165 152

60" 50@28 bear kodiak 158 145

64" 61@28 redneck d shape 172 159

62" 42@28 checkmate hunter II 150 138

there is some numbers now will somebody take an average and figure out the % increase in momentum while I go cool off!!! i can say at huntin distance out of most of the bows I can not tell a difference between the 2 arrows other than the heavier one is way quieter and harder to get out of the target because of increased penetration. will also add that my morrison that bmac now has with 62" carbon foam limbs 50@28 would shoot the 656gr arrow 168fps and 180 with the 525.

Came out to an average of 10fps difference out of these 7 bows with 131gr of arrow difference.

and what a sweet bow it is Mike!

I am drawing 26.5" and tuned my GT 35/55 best with 175 grain up front not sure of the fps but she is quick. My concern is a 455 arrow weight enough??????????

[Cottonwood]

It has happened to the best of us. I think it is more circumstance than it is equipment. I haveseen the same outcome from compound hunters and rifle hunters as well. Hang in there.