Advice on Custom Bolt action

[kck]

The APR guys are good people and right down the road from you. They build right so give them a call. For reference, I built a 28 Nosler for a customer a few months back that sounds similar to what you are looking for. I just build at my house and I have a few in line so I would defer to APR without hesitation. Customer is a lefty. Stiller Predator L/A MAG, Proof heavy Sendero and customer supplied brake (installed, timed and turned down to a seamless fit), Jewell trigger, Oberndorf hinged floorplate, Iota Kremlin stock (they did a nice job of inletting for the customer as he bought it straight from them and none of the 6-8 month lead time). PM me if you have any questions.

[-HIC-]

I didn’t say they charge more. I said by the time you spend the money to true everything up, add a rail, knob, lug etc you’re already in custom action territory money wise. The only difference is you’ve still got a 700 Action that doesn’t retain the value that a custom will.

The custom won’t need truing, and most come with a rail, knob, lug. Basically what you’re payin to add to the 700 will come factory on the custom. The difference being you pay $850 for an action that you can put 2000 rounds through and sell for $800. The worked over 700 will cost you $700+, and if you decide to sell after 2000+ rounds and you’ll get roughly half or a little better than you had invested.

I’ve worked over a couple of 700s myself. They performed great, but I lost my butt on them when I tired of them.

This is all Rubi is getting at and I cannot disagree.

700 action, if you do not have one 400 blue 500 stainless
True Action 220-300 depending on smith
Extractor upgrade (M16 / 150)
Bolt Knob 80
8-40 base drill / tap (20x4)
Badger recoil lug, double pinned (lug 30, double pin 125)
External bolt stop/release (125/installed)

You are around 840 without a base or donor action. Add the donor action and you are in custom action territory. Of course, you do not need everything listed but with a custom you will find every feature listed here and more. This does not include the rail or coating which will be included with most customs.

You can get a BigHorn Origin ready to ship from Altus for 849 including a pinned lug and pinned rail. I would do that all day over working a donor 700.

[jds247]

I didn’t say they charge more. I said by the time you spend the money to true everything up, add a rail, knob, lug etc you’re already in custom action territory money wise. The only difference is you’ve still got a 700 Action that doesn’t retain the value that a custom will.

The custom won’t need truing, and most come with a rail, knob, lug. Basically what you’re payin to add to the 700 will come factory on the custom. The difference being you pay $850 for an action that you can put 2000 rounds through and sell for $800. The worked over 700 will cost you $700+, and if you decide to sell after 2000+ rounds and you’ll get roughly half or a little better than you had invested.

I’ve worked over a couple of 700s myself. They performed great, but I lost my butt on them when I tired of them.

The difference is you are building a custom action out of a 700 and other than truing I'm using a 700 action.. my smith will true the action regardless if it's a custom or not because he doesn't trust factory ..

[TX03RUBI]

The difference is you are building a custom action out of a 700 and other than truing I'm using a 700 action.. my smith will true the action regardless if it's a custom or not because he doesn't trust factory ..

I’d be a lot more weary of that two piece bolt that Remington uses before I would a custom action not being true.

[-HIC-]

I’d be a lot more weary of that two piece bolt that Remington uses before I would a custom action not being true.

Absolutely. It can be sleeved but again more money..

A good post/read from Terry Cross on the subject:

Something worth mentioning is what is the difference 5, 10, 15 years after the rifle is built if it is ACTUALLY BEING USED?

I have 3 or 400 rifles built on remachined R700s. Some of those rifles are heavy use rifles that have come in for their 4 or 5th barrels since being built as far back as late 1980's and early 90's. 4 re-barrels is a lot of shooting when talking about .308s.

I have a good many more rifles built on custom actions starting with the Pre-591 Surgeons around 2004 and more recently migrating to Defiance that have a ton of rounds on them. All of the rifles in question have undoubtedly had many more cycles on the actions while dry firing above and beyond the cycles made while sending rounds.

What I see with all of the remachined R700s is that the receiver raceways and primary extraction cams are extremely worn. Remington receivers have the raceways broach cut (which is rough as hell) and then heat treated. Result is your bolt body and lugs are running across several high points in the raceways. Because the limited contact areas are handling all of the traffic and friction, those contact areas wear down. This wear seems to be more rapid when the rifles are work or match rifles being used hard in dirty and/or gritty environments. I have seen some actions get so bad that the rear of the bolt dropping when the striker drops is dramatic.

Some actions even seem to be more prone to binding during quick cycling. Bolts being TOO loose in the receiver can induce a bind just as quick as bolt handles that are too long. The forward push of the cycle can easily create an off axis bind that can be a PITA with either of those two conditions exist if you are not careful.

Most of the custom receivers have wired raceways. Pretty much however they feel after the first 200 cycles will be how they feel 50K cycles later. Ditto for the primary cam. Those surfaces are correct from the get go and with the addition of heat treat are there for the long run.

Remington receivers can be reamed and the bolt body's sleeved which would help somewhat with the wear issue but that is something never recommended with a hard use work or field rifle due to possibly getting too tight clearances.

R700 actions that are built into duty rifles ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY should have a minimum PM frequency of 12 months between inspections to check and/or replace the rear trigger pin. These can bend and even shear completely due to the factory bolt stop transferring all rear bolt energy directly to the pin. This same recommended PM applies to all box stock factory R700s in duty circulation in my opinion. If the rifles are being run regularly and the bolts cycled like they should be (fast and smooth), no 700s are immune from this potential issue.

Yes, the receivers can have side bolt stops installed to bypass and replace the factory stop but then you are just one more step and a lot of money closer to a custom action instead.

Note that in my opinion, none of the above is anything to worry about if you are a casual shooter that is realistically not going to be running your rifle that long or that hard.

[jds247]

Tx03Rubi and hic this is the type of information we all can learn from. Thanks for the conversation. I guess the reason I've never had a problem is my rifles are hunting rifles and I have one that's 15 years old that I've probably shot 200 times with 120 of those being shot at animals. I can see the need for better equipment for competition and long range..

[-HIC-]

Tx03Rubi and hic this is the type of information we all can learn from. Thanks for the conversation. I guess the reason I've never had a problem is my rifles are hunting rifles and I have one that's 15 years old that I've probably shot 200 times with 120 of those being shot at animals. I can see the need for better equipment for competition and long range..

Man, absolutely nothing wrong with a worked 700, and I have a few! When I had my first rifle built a custom action was out of the question. These days the choices and prices bring them closer for most of us.

I doubt you will ever have a problem if you have not yet!

[TX03RUBI]

Tx03Rubi and hic this is the type of information we all can learn from. Thanks for the conversation. I guess the reason I've never had a problem is my rifles are hunting rifles and I have one that's 15 years old that I've probably shot 200 times with 120 of those being shot at animals. I can see the need for better equipment for competition and long range..

I don’t have a problem building a rifle off a 700 depending on its purpose, and in fact have a 700 I’m considering building. I just don’t think there’s a point in buying a 700 specifically to build. I’d bet you’ll never see any issues out of your rifles with that type of shooting.

[gtsticker]

JMO but why do want a custom rifle. Unless you are shooting over 800 yards consistently any off the self savage rifle will shoot more accurately than you can hold it steady. If you want one just cause you want one then that’s cool but you can never get your money back out of it if you decide to get rid of it.



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[jmac24]

I was just following to OPs guidelines of a 700. My feelings are fine, I'm not a snowflake My next custom rifle will have a Defiance Deviant Action.

That is what I put on my 300WM, awesome

[-HIC-]

JMO but why do want a custom rifle. Unless you are shooting over 800 yards consistently any off the self savage rifle will shoot more accurately than you can hold it steady. If you want one just cause you want one then that’s cool but you can never get your money back out of it if you decide to get rid of it.



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[Cajun Blake]

Tx03Rubi and hic this is the type of information we all can learn from. Thanks for the conversation. I guess the reason I've never had a problem is my rifles are hunting rifles and I have one that's 15 years old that I've probably shot 200 times with 120 of those being shot at animals. I can see the need for better equipment for competition and long range..

jds

Since you're strictly shooting hunting rifles, stick with the Rem 700 brother as they work perfectly fine, especially for those on a limited budget or who already own the action. Adding the following items are not necessary and only add to the price: picatinny rail, oversized bolt knob, M16 or Sako extractor, scope base hole D&T's 8/40, pinned recoil lug, external bolt stop, etc... Those are nice convenient features to have but do not improve accuracy. Minute of "deer" or "pig" is all you need for the average 100-250 yd shot during hunting season.

If you absolutely have to have the aforementioned items, then save your money and buy a custom action. I agree that re-sale value on a Rem 700 that has had $300 worth of improvements is still a $450 Remington action. 20 years ago, there were a 1/2 dozen custom action makers. Today there are dozens of manufacturers who offer custom actions ranging from $800 to $2000.

For the guy who is on a budget and only has $1500 to spend on a custom rifle, use the Rem 700 action and send everything to PacNor who will blueprint the action, and fit, chamber, & install a stainless select made grade barrel on your action for $650. Add a $225 take-off HSP stock and you have a very nice hunting rifle.

If someone has $5000 to spend on a custom build, then they have a blank canvas to work with.

[hoyt21]

Johnny Benchrest. At crimson accuracy. I had him build me a all around rifle this summer. And I’ve ran it through the ringer. And it’s killed a truck load of animals. Stupid accurate.

[jds247]

jds

Since you're strictly shooting hunting rifles, stick with the Rem 700 brother as they work perfectly fine, especially for those on a limited budget or who already own the action. Adding the following items are not necessary and only add to the price: picatinny rail, oversized bolt knob, M16 or Sako extractor, scope base hole D&T's 8/40, pinned recoil lug, external bolt stop, etc... Those are nice convenient features to have but do not improve accuracy. Minute of "deer" or "pig" is all you need for the average 100-250 yd shot during hunting season.

If you absolutely have to have the aforementioned items, then save your money and buy a custom action. I agree that re-sale value on a Rem 700 that has had $300 worth of improvements is still a $450 Remington action. 20 years ago, there were a 1/2 dozen custom action makers. Today there are dozens of manufacturers who offer custom actions ranging from $800 to $2000.

For the guy who is on a budget and only has $1500 to spend on a custom rifle, use the Rem 700 action and send everything to PacNor who will blueprint the action, and fit, chamber, & install a stainless select made grade barrel on your action for $650. Add a $225 take-off HSP stock and you have a very nice hunting rifle.

If someone has $5000 to spend on a custom build, then they have a blank canvas to work with.

Yea sir you can build a fine shooting rifle on a budget.. gives you more money for a nice scope.

[wheels]

Can buy piece by piece myself and save money for optics? I really like the Defiance actions and proof research barrels , thanks for all the info