Originally posted by meltingfeather
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ATF Prosecutes man for pistol brace
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Gee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.
We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.
*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.
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Originally posted by 35remington View PostGee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.
We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.
*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.
Having said all that, The 1934 NFA act is unconstitutional in my opinion. And 'GASP' Reagan further screwed us in '86.
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Originally posted by RJH1 View PostWell, he got called a Hillary voter, Beto voter, idiotic, and an aspiring ATF agent (and I don't think any of that was in a positive manner) all for misunderstanding the current rulings or having a difference of opinion, so yeah I am pretty serious, but I tried to do it in a humorous way.
I don't agree with his stance, but still....
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ATF Prosecutes man for pistol brace
“If however the shooter/possessor takes affirmative steps to configure the device for use as a shoulder stock for example......”
This passage in the ATF letter explains what the ATF considers “making an SBR”
It also goes on to state that it does not matter that what ever alterations where made may be reversible they still constitute a redesign making it an SBR.
I think the above combined with the fact that he tied the rubber end of a walking cane on the end to make it more comfortable on his shoulder constitutes a “redesign” and “Making” an sbr for the purposes of the letter.
Photo says he attached the cane rubber end to the brace.
Do I think it’s all stupid yes
Do I think the ATF and NFA over reach every day yes
Do I think it fits as a violation yes
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProLast edited by TxKronik; 11-02-2018, 06:50 AM.
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Originally posted by 35remington View PostGee willikers, Batman. If only there was a way to avoid this problem entirely. The ATF could like make a website or something and folks could like pay their $200* and never have to worry about RIP puppets being shot and the gov raiding their house to steal the absolutel abomination of a firearm they have created.
We could call it . . . I dunno . . . . eForms.
*All of the above are infringements on the Second Amendment.
Also, the fact is, the ATF's rules allow for pistols. They allow for pistols with braces. They allow for braces that look like stocks. Now they even allow for braces that extend and function like stocks. They clarify their rules in writing to say you can shoulder the pistol without breaking their rules. You can't blame Americans for following their rules and suggest everyone should go pay $200 and wait 6-9 months to get an SBR stamp if they can remain within the published guidelines of the ATF without giving the Feds $200.
If the ATF doesn't like braces that look/function as stocks and they don't want citizens to shoulder pistols then they should ban those items and back track on their public statements and say that no one should ever shoulder one. Problem solved.
My point is this......if you're going to break the ATF's current rules with your pistol, get an SBR via their proper methods. If you build a pistol via their guidelines and use it via their guidelines then they need to leave well enough alone.
I'm speaking generally and not to this exact case in question.
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Originally posted by Outdoor Legacy View PostI don't totally disagree but to be clear, the ATF makes the process intentionally difficult and drawn out. If it was just a matter of filling a form out, mailing them $200 and getting a stamp in the mail a couple weeks later this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I also fully admit their long draw out ridiculous process is no excuse for violating the law.
Also, the fact is, the ATF's rules allow for pistols. They allow for pistols with braces. They allow for braces that look like stocks. Now they even allow for braces that extend and function like stocks. They clarify their rules in writing to say you can shoulder the pistol without breaking their rules. You can't blame Americans for following their rules and suggest everyone should go pay $200 and wait 6-9 months to get an SBR stamp if they can remain within the published guidelines of the ATF without giving the Feds $200.
If the ATF doesn't like braces that look/function as stocks and they don't want citizens to shoulder pistols then they should ban those items and back track on their public statements and say that no one should ever shoulder one. Problem solved.
My point is this......if you're going to break the ATF's current rules with your pistol, get an SBR via their proper methods. If you build a pistol via their guidelines and use it via their guidelines then they need to leave well enough alone.
I'm speaking generally and not to this exact case in question.
(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.
(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.
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Originally posted by 35remington View PostGood discussion. Two responses:
(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.
(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.
2) Fair point and I'm not an attorney but I would find it very dishonest for the assistant director of government agency to release a clarifying statement on official letterhead that essentially goes against previously held common interpretations of law and then the same agency cry uncle and say that the letter held no water and wasn't a legitimate defense. Now let me clarify and say that I'm not at all surprised the Feds would try to do that, but I find it extremely dishonest.
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Originally posted by 35remington View PostGood discussion. Two responses:
(1) Current wait time to get a gun SBR'ed are approximately 7 days. Yes, days.
(2) Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has explored the issue of just how much y'all can rely on these "ATF Letters." ATF Letters are not law. They are not cases. They are not controlling authority that the court must follow by law. They are not mandatory authority that must be considered as a defense to prosecution. They are just letters.
Wait....
Are you saying current F1 e file approval time is 7 days?
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Originally posted by Chew View PostI think I will dust off my copy of Unintended Consequences and remind myself of why the idiotic sh%$ show that is known as the ATF Firearms Division is inherently unconstitutional.
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Originally posted by Mike D View PostWait....
Are you saying current F1 e file approval time is 7 days?
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