Accuracy issue

[1shot]

Did some shooting with my dad this past week and I couldn't get my rifle (savage model 14w in .308 win) to group under 2" inches. We were trying to build a load for it and here are some of the strange things we noticed.
1. All bullet weights grouped about the same (150, 165, 168)
2. All Bullets were set at the Max Length 2.800
3. After getting a charge set letting the rifle cool and shooting the same charge resulted in a larger group and 150fps Variances. It also seems to start lowing down dramatically after shooting about 10 rounds without cleaning.
4. A rifle with a 16 inch barrel was shooting the same load much faster.
5. Rifle seems to get dirty fast.
6. It was the arrow not the indian. First thing I thought but I was grouping other rifles just fine.


Let me also say this gun use to shoot great. By great I meen better than me. Shooting a 1 MOA group was a pretty regular occurrence with the "right ammo." However, it was always picky on ammo. Before I started reloading it loved any hornady round in the 165-178 range. I would also shoot Federal Fusion well. Any Remington on Winchester bullet would tumble it didn't matter the weight. When I started reloading it would love 178 Amax, but now loves nothing.

I was thinking about ordering some of David Tubbs bullets and seeing if fire lapping would help. Should I get an headspace gauge an check it?

Any ideas would help.

[Southernshiver]

Just a few ideas to check:
If barrel is free float ensure its not touching the stock. If it's pillar bedded check those.
Take the stock off and check the barrel for any warping or curvature.
Check the rifling and the crown for gouges or burrs.
Headspace as you noted.
Brass inspection for deformation or markings on spent casings. Before and after firing
Chamber and then clear a couple rounds and check the bullet for markings or pressure points.

[1shot]

Just a few ideas to check:
If barrel is free float ensure its not touching the stock. If it's pillar bedded check those.
Take the stock off and check the barrel for any warping or curvature.
Check the rifling and the crown for gouges or burrs.
Headspace as you noted.
Brass inspection for deformation or markings on spent casings. Before and after firing
Chamber and then clear a couple rounds and check the bullet for markings or pressure points.

Checked the barrel it is free floated, I will look at stock a little harder but I haven't noticed any warpage.
Haven't seen any burrs. Was thinking about ordering a bore scope to give it a look.
Didn't notice anything crazy on the brass although some rounds seem to feel tight when chambering them.
I will looks for marks on a bullet tonight.

[twosixteens]

How many rounds through it did it always get dirty fast?

[1shot]

Bought it used about 10 years ago so no idea how many rounds. I've put maybe 500 down it. I don't see any signs of pitting on the throat. Didn't notice it getting dirty fast in the past, however I never shot more than 30 or 40 rds in a day with it either.

[Southernshiver]

Check your brass for uniformity length and diameter locations before reloading and after.
Grab some factory loads and check with those.
Check your optic bases for wrapping and tightness same with the rings.
Get a laser bore light and while looking through the optic move the crosshairs around a little. Then bump the scope and see if the reticle shifts from the point of aim.
Check your optic leveling left and right and front to back.
If you're using iron sights it's a bit tougher to nail down a culprit.

[1shot]

I'll check the Rings and bases again. Good Ideas to check. Optic is a Redfield Revolution 3X9

[1shot]

Why would it be so picky on ammo? That's what partially concerns me.

[Cajun Blake]

Did some shooting with my dad this past week and I couldn't get my rifle (savage model 14w in .308 win) to group under 2" inches.

1. All bullet weights grouped about the same (150, 165, 168)
2. All Bullets were set at the Max Length 2.800
3. After getting a charge set letting the rifle cool and shooting the same charge resulted in a larger group and 150fps Variances. It also seems to start lowing down dramatically after shooting about 10 rounds without cleaning.
4. A rifle with a 16 inch barrel was shooting the same load much faster.
5. Rifle seems to get dirty fast.
6. It was the arrow not the indian. First thing I thought but I was grouping other rifles just fine.

I was thinking about ordering some of David Tubbs bullets and seeing if fire lapping would help. Should I get an headspace gauge an check it?

Any ideas would help.

(2) Q: 2.800" is the max. length of what .... bolt face to rifling or magazine length ??

Reply: you need a bullet comparator and/or a bullet seating depth tool to confirm actual "max seating depth" for bullets. Your seated bullets may not even be close to the rifling causing "bullet jump" and poor accuracy. I'ts been my experience most rifles like bullets kissing the lands or very close.

(5) Q: have you cleaned the bore very well and examined it for copper fouling ? What powder are you using as some burn very dirty, while others are very clean

Reply: Buy proper cleaning tools !! When taken care of properly (maintenance) the barrel/rifle will shoot better and you can accurately decipher the results from your hand loads. Right now your just pizzin' in the wind.

Tubbs: reply ... wouldn't waste my $$$ on the Tubbs Final Finish. See above .... invest in quality barrel cleaning equipment : bore guide, cleaning cradle, Dewey - Tipton - Pro-Sot or similiar cleaning rod, Butches Bore Shine or Montana Extreme bore cleaning solution, bore foam, etc ....


Think of you rifle as an automobile. Neglect changing the oil and transmission fluid, low tire pressure, zero maintenance except adding gas and the car will run like feces.

I see lots of room for "accuracy" improvement as you just need to refine your current system.

[Walding1989]

id start with a cleaning rod and some good copper remover!

[1shot]

(2) Q: 2.800" is the max. length of what .... bolt face to rifling or magazine length ??

Reply: you need a bullet comparator and/or a bullet seating depth tool to confirm actual "max seating depth" for bullets. Your seated bullets may not even be close to the rifling causing "bullet jump" and poor accuracy. I'ts been my experience most rifles like bullets kissing the lands or very close.

(5) Q: have you cleaned the bore very well and examined it for copper fouling ? What powder are you using as some burn very dirty, while others are very clean

Reply: Buy proper cleaning tools !! When taken care of properly (maintenance) the barrel/rifle will shoot better and you can accurately decipher the results from your hand loads. Right now your just pizzin' in the wind.

Tubbs: reply ... wouldn't waste my $$$ on the Tubbs Final Finish. See above .... invest in quality barrel cleaning equipment : bore guide, cleaning cradle, Dewey - Tipton - Pro-Sot or similiar cleaning rod, Butches Bore Shine or Montana Extreme bore cleaning solution, bore foam, etc ....


Think of you rifle as an automobile. Neglect changing the oil and transmission fluid, low tire pressure, zero maintenance except adding gas and the car will run like feces.

I see lots of room for "accuracy" improvement as you just need to refine your current system.

2.800 is what the manual said is max overall length

It was cleaned really well before we went out. When I got back I wanted to make sure it was spotless and copper free so I used some foaming bore cleaner and kept cleaning until i got clean patches.

I have a comparitor. It has been a while since I used it. Guess I need to bust it out and remeasure.

Here are some pics I took yesterday with my phone maybe it will help.

[cmh2007]

Fire lapping is not the fix you are looking for. Keep working on your load. The max length is a suggestion. Pm me and I'll share a load that works in every rifle I have tried

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[1shot]

Update: rechecked bases and rings, everything was tight. I was going to put my laser boresite in to in and check the scope but I don't trust it at all.

[trophy8]

You saying all of two certain brands of bullets tumble is bad. You have some serious problems if that's the case unless you're mistaken. You need to measure the distance to the lands. And start .01" off of that. Even if you have to shoot single shot. Find out what it likes. Your speed problems sound fishy as well. I would start checking the consistency of your case weights and make sure you prep all the cases the same.

Can you lost what components you're using? Case, powder Etc. And charge and all that too. Rate of twist in the barrel. What you're using to clean. How you're doing it. Something is way off.

The tumbling thing bothers me. You are saying they hit the target sideways? Every shot with 2 brands of ammo?

[Pushbutton2]

I barely understand what is being said in the
Is thread
I know what the crown is.
Is that lint or a burr about 5 - 530ish on your crown? I'm guessing lint.....