AR help

[dclifton]

Ok I got a question for the AR guys. I'm pretty gun savy not a big AR fan tho. But here I am with a. Question.

I have a S&J billet lower, timney trigger. Hardened arms upper with 16" stainless bull 1-9" twist.
Palmetto full auto BCG. With YHM QD and YHM can. Vortex HSLR scope larue QD mount

When I got the upper I swapped the rail for a Samson rail I has on my old AR and put the quad back on it.


I have shot 55gr XM193s 855s several handloads that I have for my other 223 and Hornady tap.
All shot 2-4inch groups with 3 different shooters. We did have one 3 shot group that went 1.5 then opened right back up. So I got tired of messing with it and called hardened arms to see what test load they shot. The guy said just send it back and they would take a look at the upper with the BCG. Got it back they said the barrel nut was not tight enough, I kinda doubted it in the back of my mind because I have worked on several ARs for people and never had one problem swapping handguards barrel nuts etc. But who knows. So I get all excited guys says it shot a 1" group. I get it back and shoot it today. Same story all over again.

Only thing I have left to check is swapping scopes and mounts which I will check before I throw in the towel. Any other ideas out their?

I hate wasting a lot more time on loads for nothing. And I did try about 10 different hand loads the first time. Would y'all try more loads after I check
Scope. Or send it back again?

[Bullseye07]

Question: Are you putting it in a vise or something and shooting or not?

[Dejashoot]

Try heavier grained ammo before anything else.
Run a few rounds without the can also.

Change one thing at a time. Then shoot a few groups.

[dclifton]

Try heavier grained ammo before anything else.
Run a few rounds without the can also.

Change one thing at a time. Then shoot a few groups.

Yea that's what I've been trying to do. I'll swing by somewhere tomorrow and pick up some 65gr ammo. The guy told me 55 was the best

No baffle strikes to by the way.

[dclifton]

Question: Are you putting it in a vise or something and shooting or not?

Lead sled and bipod &bags both.

[gusman]

I have a 1/9 twist on mine and 55gr opens up x2 compared to 64g..
maybe same on yours..

[Ruark]

2-4" is typical for that 193/855 ammo out of a 16" barrel. The best you're going to get is 1 to 1 1/2" although from time to time you'll shoot a tight one. The 16" AR is made for combat, not 500 yard bench rest shooting. Sounds like you have a nice gun but don't try to make it into something its not. If you must have sub-MOA accuracy, switch to a 20-21" barrel.

[dclifton]

I have a RRA coyote carbine 16" that will shoot moa all day.

[chewy]

my rra varmint shoots sub moa with a lot of different ammo but most of my other ar's like my larue and noveske only like 60gr and heavier. got some of my best groups with hand loaded nosler 60gr BT.

[TacticalCowboy]

I would try some quality bullets.

[dclifton]

I would try some quality bullets.

Sierra and hornadys are lol

[catslayer]

I hate that ppl think barrel length is a direct correlation to accuracy. A match grade well cut barrel even in a 14 inch will shoot TINY TINY groups all day. Especially once you find the ammo that matches that guns... Now that said I believe that you get what you pay for in a barrel.

LONG BARRELS DO EFFECT- Muzzle velocity, harmonics(makes different loads a better match to the gun), and most importantly.... THEY MAKE IT HEAVIER. Heavier guns don't move as much.... Guns that HUMANS shoot that don't move as much make shooting tiny groups easier.

This sounds to me like a scope/mount issue. a barrel issue(havn't found the right weight bullet) is next likely or lastly in likelihood is an actually issue with the something in the gun... maybe something binding? Chamber issue?

I would start with taking mount all the way down, clean and re-attach. shoot with regular, then with heavier bullets, if it doesn't improve send it back. I wouldn't mess with trying to work up a load for it until I saw SOME consistency...

[dclifton]

I hate that ppl think barrel length is a direct correlation to accuracy. A match grade well cut barrel even in a 14 inch will shoot TINY TINY groups all day. Especially once you find the ammo that matches that guns... Now that said I believe that you get what you pay for in a barrel.

LONG BARRELS DO EFFECT- Muzzle velocity, harmonics(makes different loads a better match to the gun), and most importantly.... THEY MAKE IT HEAVIER. Heavier guns don't move as much.... Guns that HUMANS shoot that don't move as much make shooting tiny groups easier.

This sounds to me like a scope/mount issue. a barrel issue(havn't found the right weight bullet) is next likely or lastly in likelihood is an actually issue with the something in the gun... maybe something binding? Chamber issue?

I would start with taking mount all the way down, clean and re-attach. shoot with regular, then with heavier bullets, if it doesn't improve send it back. I wouldn't mess with trying to work up a load for it until I saw SOME consistency...

Exactly my thoughts as well. I have tore it down twice now. It is going back to hardened arms. And I just picked up the RRA predator out of the classifieds. I already had the coyote and my buddy had the predator so I know they shoot.

[Ruark]

M193 is designed and loaded to shoot about 2"-2.5" 10-shot groups at 100yds out of a military barrel. That's the Lake City milspec. So what he's experiencing is entirely within specs, no matter what kind of barrel he has.

We ARE talking about 10 shot groups here, right? If it's "opening back up," it could just be shooting within the group.

[Coach W]

He said he's also shooting handloads.

I agree Barrel length doesn't effect accuracy. I get tired of saying that too catslayer.

What does affect accuracy is quality parts and quality manufacturing processes. Hardened arms.. if i remember correctly is the ones that sell for super cheap. May be the best it can do..

If you're unsatisfied with that you may very well end up chasing your tail. There's a whole list of things that go into making a rifle shoot nice groups. IMO you started out working against yourself with the choice of manufacturer.

Check your mount, scope, rings

Check to make sure the rail you put on it isn't contacting the barrel or gas block.

I'd say with 3 different shooters you can rule out shooter error.