Lessons I think we should learn from Zimmerman

[TxKronik]

From a LEO perspective if it isn't an immediate threat to someone call the police and stay out of it you arnt trained most likely and even if you are it is not your job it is our job and we have more legal ability to intervene then a civilian does I handle calls like that every night at work let us do our jobs and maybe everyone goes home Justus .02 but again as stated if you or someone is in danger do what you have to do

[iamntxhunter]

From a LEO perspective if it isn't an immediate threat to someone call the police and stay out of it you arnt trained most likely and even if you are it is not your job it is our job and we have more legal ability to intervene then a civilian does I handle calls like that every night at work let us do our jobs and maybe everyone goes home Justus .02 but again as stated if you or someone is in danger do what you have to do

I understand where your coming from but the police can't take your neighborhood back for you. If that was the case it wouldn't have been taken over by crime in the first place. You will either make a choice between fight or flight. My take is it is not only your right but responsibility to protect your home and yes your neighborhood. If you are on a crime watch program in your neighborhood yes try to stay in your vehicle and observe fron a safe non confrontational distance. If you are in an area where you must exit your vehicle to observe be prepared to protect your life if necessary. Don't let the media and the progressives beat us into a conforming cowardice position because that is what they want.

The narrative is now about the stand your ground law. It will always be something with the liberal progressives. They can't stand what real Americans stand for. Yoy really have to understand what they believe and why they believe it.

They believe that we are all citizens in this world and we should have open borders.
They believe things like this because they have been dumbed down and have been brainwashed by a liberal progressive education system.

There are enemies within the gates.

[iamntxhunter]

O just can't keep his mouth shut on this issue and continues to stir the pot.

[Bill]

O just can't keep his mouth shut on this issue and continues to stir the pot.

Because if people are worried about being dragged out of the vehicles and beaten (aka justified and accepted "whoop azz" in TM's culture) they won't be asking Why about Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS targeting conservative groups, voter fraud, NSA spying, rigging the elections for the next 100 years with Democratic Latino voters given citizenship, health care going into the toilet, the economy in most of the US in the dumper, the Middle East in turmoil with the governments he helped overthrow, were still loosing people in Afghanistan, gun control to disarm I lt the law abiding citizens and he's Ineligible to be president as not being native birn. To name a few.

[tvc184]

I understand where your coming from but the police can't take your neighborhood back for you. ..............

I agree but there is something to what TxK says.

I will start out by saying that we have to distinguish actual injury situations and theft or property crimes. I don't think anyone thinks that a person should stop and call the police if they are about to be seriously injured or killed. Defend yourself first even up to the use of deadly force and then call it is.

A citizen in Texas (and I am assuming in most states) has the right to make a citizen's arrest in felony and certain misdemeanors.

In this case had Zimmerman actually witnessed a felony like a burglary (breaking and entering in some states), then he could have taken Martin into custody just as any police officer. The problem comes not when "arresting" a criminal but contacting a "potential" criminal.

This is where I will agree somewhat with TxK. Citizens have the right to arrest with probable cause but they do not have the right to detain in order to investigate. What I am talking about is not witnessing a known crime but looking at a person that is merely "suspicious" as I believe Zimmerman did to Martin. He did not know that Martin was committing a crime but looked like he "may have been". That is where law enforcement has authority that is not extended to civilians. To detain a person might itself be a crime in Texas (False Imprisonment) if you "restrain" a person's movements. "Restrain" is defined as restricting a person's movements by as little as deception or intimidation. It does not require you to actually put your hands on someone.

I am not so concerned with the police having a special ability or training (which normally they do) but with legal protections. Simply put, I can do legally do things in the scope of my job that is a crime for someone else. In fact if the Zimmerman case was in Texas and there was evidence that Zimmerman was holding onto Martin or keeping him there by threats, Zimmerman would have been committing a crime and if Martin hit Zimmerman in order to get away from that false imprisonment, Zimmerman might very well have been convicted of Murder.

If an officer contacts a reasonably suspicious person, he can detain that person lawfully and if that person walks or runs away, it is the crime of Evading Detention. If a civilian tries to do the same thing, that guy that looking out for his neighborhood that is "restraining" another person probably is committing a crime.

Obviously there is no such evidence in the Zimmerman case and I do not believe that is what happened but it also speaks of what TxK was talking about (I think).

[iamntxhunter]

I agree but there is something to what TxK says.

I will start out by saying that we have to distinguish actual injury situations and theft or property crimes. I don't think anyone thinks that a person should stop and call the police if they are about to be seriously injured or killed. Defend yourself first even up to the use of deadly force and then call it is.

A citizen in Texas (and I am assuming in most states) has the right to make a citizen's arrest in felony and certain misdemeanors.

In this case had Zimmerman actually witnessed a felony like a burglary (breaking and entering in some states), then he could have taken Martin into custody just as any police officer. The problem comes not when "arresting" a criminal but contacting a "potential" criminal.

This is where I will agree somewhat with TxK. Citizens have the right to arrest with probable cause but they do not have the right to detain in order to investigate. What I am talking about is not witnessing a known crime but looking at a person that is merely "suspicious" as I believe Zimmerman did to Martin. He did not know that Martin was committing a crime but looked like he "may have been". That is where law enforcement has authority that is not extended to civilians. To detain a person might itself be a crime in Texas (False Imprisonment) if you "restrain" a person's movements. "Restrain" is defined as restricting a person's movements by as little as deception or intimidation. It does not require you to actually put your hands on someone.

I am not so concerned with the police having a special ability or training (which normally they do) but with legal protections. Simply put, I can do legally do things in the scope of my job that is a crime for someone else. In fact if the Zimmerman case was in Texas and there was evidence that Zimmerman was holding onto Martin or keeping him there by threats, Zimmerman would have been committing a crime and if Martin hit Zimmerman in order to get away from that false imprisonment, Zimmerman might very well have been convicted of Murder.

If an officer contacts a reasonably suspicious person, he can detain that person lawfully and if that person walks or runs away, it is the crime of Evading Detention. If a civilian tries to do the same thing, that guy that looking out for his neighborhood that is "restraining" another person probably is committing a crime.

Obviously there is no such evidence in the Zimmerman case and I do not believe that is what happened but it also speaks of what TxK was talking about (I think).

I agree 100% with your statement.

I wouldn't try to detain anyone or suggest otherwise be it suspicious activity or an actual crime unless I had to intervene with deadly force to protect a life.

With that said I do think it is up to the community to take their neighborhoods back from crime and that can be done from a watch and view position. I would just warn that if you have to get out of your car to observe be prepared to protect your life for you do not know who you are keeping an eye on as some don't take a liking to it for obvious reasons.

One thing about thieves and people who are involved in crime know that most law abiding citizens don't want to get involved as they have much to loose, can't protect their house at all times, have young children at home and can easily be intimidated for those reasons alone.