Question for the rifle reloaders

[tpepper70]

On another note, I shot 2 more 3 round loads yesterday, the top 2 in the pic. The top is 2.7grs over book max. Speed jumped 47fps over the 3rd from top load(2.1grs over max). Both grouped better than I can at 5/8" at 100 yards. I'm not going to push it anymore and will drop it down a good bit. Primers and brass really don't look much different than the other brass, with the exception of the max book load(bottom row).
However, I'm curious if powder age has something to do with it, or possibly my OAL longer than book data, or both. These loads are not compressed and everything I've read says loads are compressed about 1.5gr higher than max, but they're seating to book at 2.80". I'm at 2.83" and could go to 2.85" before I'm at mag length.
Also, I'm not sure how old this bottle of powder is, but it's at least 10 years old, but has always been in a cool/dry environment, well, as long as I've had it. Anyway, been a fun, interesting little journey. Appreciate ya'lls replies and thoughts. Tim

[BLACKFINTURKEY]

I don’t see anything that would be concerning to me. The primers really are not that flat to me.

[tpepper70]

I don’t see anything that would be concerning to me. The primers really are not that flat to me.

This is the hottest load. Look at the SD and ES. I'm real tempted to load that for hunting season. Lol

[BLACKFINTURKEY]

This is the hottest load. Look at the SD and ES. I'm real tempted to load that for hunting season. Lol

I would not hesitate to. I have lots of loads over published max.

[tdwinklr]

I don’t see anything that would be concerning to me. The primers really are not that flat to me.

Agreed but I had to look at them again. Lol. No they are not flattened out but the primer dent is rather ridged
around each one, which I've seen in mine before, even quite a ways below max loads. Often wonder if its just an
odd primer batch or the material changed at the mfgr?
Anyway, I do watch my primers but on a bolt rifle, when the bolt is hard to open, then I back off on the powder.
Supposedly another sign is a primer that backs out of the primer cup, ie: sticks out above the brass after being fired.

Good luck, OP. Is just good advice to always start out a new load at minimum and work up from there.

[tpepper70]

Agreed but I had to look at them again. Lol. No they are not flattened out but the primer dent is rather ridged
around each one, which I've seen in mine before, even quite a ways below max loads. Often wonder if its just an
odd primer batch or the material changed at the mfgr?
Anyway, I do watch my primers but on a bolt rifle, when the bolt is hard to open, then I back off on the powder.
Supposedly another sign is a primer that backs out of the primer cup, ie: sticks out above the brass after being fired.

Good luck, OP. Is just good advice to always start out a new load at minimum and work up from there.

I've read that the ridge could be from the firing pin hole, but I don't know for sure. No heavy bolt lift, at all. Gonna run it until I'm out of this lot of powder then start over. Thanks

[SabreKiller]

Another thing to consider is that all load manuals aren’t created equal. Hornady data seems pretty watered down.

so your 2 grains over max in one book may be max or slightly under according to another book.

edit: I know I said hornady was usually watered down, but they show a max charge of 41.5gr H4350 with a 140 ELDM in 6.5 creedmoor. Hodgdon shows a max of 40.0. I wish everyone would get on the same page lol

It's not just the Hornady manual that gets watered down. I think it's all of them. I've got several Speer manuals and several calibers that I load for, .270, 7Mag, 6.5X55 have different load data in them. Me thinks the industry is afraid of lawsuits.

OP, I see some primer flow as well, but it doesn't look like anything I'd worry about. I too chase max every once in awhile and I've got one particular rifle (Remington 700 Ti in 7SAUM) that shoots its best at book max. And, at book max, the primers are flattened pretty good.

[tpepper70]

It's not just the Hornady manual that gets watered down. I think it's all of them. I've got several Speer manuals and several calibers that I load for, .270, 7Mag, 6.5X55 have different load data in them. Me thinks the industry is afraid of lawsuits.

OP, I see some primer flow as well, but it doesn't look like anything I'd worry about. I too chase max every once in awhile and I've got one particular rifle (Remington 700 Ti in 7SAUM) that shoots its best at book max. And, at book max, the primers are flattened pretty good.

I hear ya. I also think they're afraid of lawsuits. Appreciate the reply.

[M16]

I think they have better pressure measuring equipment. They want to stay under SAAMI specs. Which keeps them from liability issues.

[SaltwaterSlick]

I too have been loading for 50+ years. Used primarily Hornady data early on with Speer, Nosler and Sierra data to a lesser degree. I have 4 editions of Hornady manuals and in each edition, the common rounds I load, the newer the edition, the lower the max. loads are. My old standard .270 Win. load is 55.5 gr. IMR4350 behind a 130gr. Hornady Spire Point. Worked up that load out of the Hornady 7th. edition (I think). Two editions newer, that charge is 2+ gr. Over max.

[tpepper70]

I too have been loading for 50+ years. Used primarily Hornady data early on with Speer, Nosler and Sierra data to a lesser degree. I have 4 editions of Hornady manuals and in each edition, the common rounds I load, the newer the edition, the lower the max. loads are. My old standard .270 Win. load is 55.5 gr. IMR4350 behind a 130gr. Hornady Spire Point. Worked up that load out of the Hornady 7th. edition (I think). Two editions newer, that charge is 2+ gr. Over max.

Crazy ain't it. Same thing I've noticed.

[Drycreek3189]

I only load for two rifles so keep that in mind. On my APR .280 Rem, I’m a little under max simply because it’s where the best groups are and my longest shot is probably 150 yards. I’m not chasing 7mm mag velocities. On my Ruger No. 1 25-06 I’m a half grain over max because that’s where the best groups were and as little as I shoot it, that ain’t gonna hurt the brass or the gun.

As hinted at already, older manuals will show hotter loads, IMO that’s because people didn’t sue at the drop of a hat fifty years ago. Rifles are probably better built now, certainly with better materials, but as you’ve already said, that top row of empties are knocking on the door of too much pressure. I don’t flirt with pressure, in rifles or sixguns. In my old age, speed is not my goal, accuracy with a well built bullet that compliments your target animal is where it’s at.

[M16]

Anybody aware of a successful lawsuit against a published reloading manual company? I don’t ever recall running across one.

[Drycreek3189]

Anybody aware of a successful lawsuit against a published reloading manual company? I don’t ever recall running across one.

I haven’t either, but that doesn’t mean that the thought ain’t in their minds. The phrase “out of an abundance of caution “ comes to mind. There have been several against gun manufacturers that have changed things immensely. New trigger design for Remington, transfer bar for Ruger, etc. One could argue that both that I mentioned were probably needed. A lot of old buzzards (like me) miss the “four clicks” and the good trigger pull of the OM Ruger, but I’m not one of them. I can get a good trigger pull out of a NM Ruger and carry six in the wheel safely. I digress, but you get the point.

Without the proper equipment, we really don’t know what the pressures are running on our reloads, but when the gun blows up you will know you pushed it too far. Flattened primers, or primer flow are just indicators, they don’t tell the whole story.

[xman59]

Every rifle is a one of a kind, safe in one may not be in another.... i have an old book for the 60's and the data would make most people flip their wigs,,, it is mostly way hotter than anything published in the last 40 years,,,, from that un-named book i worked up a load for a 30-06 that was 6 grains hotter than anything else with a 150 gr bullet,,, i was pushing a 150 gr ballistic tip and just over 3050fps,,, with no pressure signs with a powder i will not name either, but it is still made,,, groups averaged at 7/16" all the time,,,, but that same powder is now listed in most book as loads no more than 57 grains, some as low at 54 gr,,,,,,,, i know it was a hot load,,, but make a single change and the pressure would really spike,,,, I switched from the ballistic tip to a Remington bronze point 150 gr,,,, velocity jumped to 3174 fps! but it would also blow the primers out of the case, loosen the pocket so the case was ruined along with splitting the case neck a bit.... everything but the bullet remained the same,,,,, im 40 years older and survived it all without getting hurt and ruining a gun.... but i would not do it now because i know more than i did back then.... live and learn..... his loads were very likely from an older book, most of them showed a lot hotter data than the lawyered up books do now... ,, what ever you do, do it slowly and methodically and keep a log book.....
Just another fyi i had a 45-70 marlin,, factory 300 gr hollow points were all loaded at about 1800 fps,,,, pretty mild.... but I found data for the marlin and some newer guns and would up with a safe load with a 300 gr H.P. at 2050 fps,,,,,, and stayed with that load for over 40 years,,, accurate and a bang flop guarantee every time i pulled the trigger...... you can still find hotter loads than that if you look,, but i was satisfied with the results so i quit looking for any other data......