Question for the rifle reloaders

[tpepper70]

A little background. I've been reloading for close to 50 years, Dad taught me as a young boy, and I've never gone above book max. After he died, I found load data on several of his rifles that are above book max, some by 3-4 grains. With that said, I've done a bunch of reading, trying to learn how to read pressure signs, and I just ain't sure, as I don't see any difference between book max and 2 grains over max. No heavy bolt lift, nothing. Here's a pic of the brass. Bottom row is book max and top row is 2 grains over. I know I shouldn't go above book max, and don't suggest anyone go above, I'm just trying to see how high I can go before pressure signs show up. I know I will hear plenty of people say I should stop, and I prob will, but I'd just like to know from others who have chased max if they see any pressure signs. The cases are fine and I feel no headspace ridge inside the case. Bergara Ridge rifle shooting 140gr Berger Elite Hunter bullets at 2.83 OAL. I will say this, great groups at book max and the same group at 2 grains over, not so much in between. Thanks folks

[Walker]

I see more primer flow around pin mark on top row than bottom. Can't tell from picture but I bet a close examination you'll find slightly more primer flattening as you go up from bottom row to top.

[tpepper70]

I see more primer flow around pin mark on top row than bottom. Can't tell from picture but I bet a close examination you'll find slightly more primer flattening as you go up from bottom row to top.

Yes sir, this is what I was thinking as well, just doesn't seem as extreme as what I've read and seen online. I really appreciate your input. I'm prob not going any hotter as these last 3 loads were shot today and the book load was a few weeks ago when it was a little hotter. Thanks again

[M16]

Pressure signs usually don’t show up until you are way over max. Usually around 70,000 psi. Still probably safe in modern guns but brass life will be short lived. Different brands of brass will show different signs of pressure. So will your barrel cleaning regimen. Don’t clean your barrel and it will develop a carbon ring that would eventually increase pressure. I go by what my chronograph tells me. When I reach the velocity common for the caliber and bullet weight I’m probably maxed out.I’ve come to realize that an extra 100 fps doesn’t kill any better.

[tpepper70]

Pressure signs usually don’t show up until you are way over max. Usually around 70,000 psi. Still probably safe in modern guns but brass life will be short lived. Different brands of brass will show different signs of pressure. So will your barrel cleaning regimen. Don’t clean your barrel and it will develop a carbon ring that would eventually increase pressure. I go by what my chronograph tells me. When I reach the velocity common for the caliber and bullet weight I’m probably maxed out.I’ve come to realize that an extra 100 fps doesn’t kill any better.

I agree. I'm just experimenting with it to learn a little. I appreciate the feedback.

[TacticalCowboy]

Another thing to consider is that all load manuals aren’t created equal. Hornady data seems pretty watered down.

so your 2 grains over max in one book may be max or slightly under according to another book.

edit: I know I said hornady was usually watered down, but they show a max charge of 41.5gr H4350 with a 140 ELDM in 6.5 creedmoor. Hodgdon shows a max of 40.0. I wish everyone would get on the same page lol

[tpepper70]

Another thing to consider is that all load manuals aren’t created equal. Hornady data seems pretty watered down.

so your 2 grains over max in one book may be max or slightly under according to another book.

edit: I know I said hornady was usually watered down, but they show a max charge of 41.5gr H4350 with a 140 ELDM in 6.5 creedmoor. Hodgdon shows a max of 40.0. I wish everyone would get on the same page lol

You got that right. They're all over the place. I have some load data from back in the 70's that's way hotter than today's loads. They're doing all they can to make it hard on us. Lol. Thanks

[jomw10]

The Max reported on the books is for a specific rifle, barrel, primer, case combination.
different test guns will result in different max. Anything different and your max will be different than the book. That’s why you should start below max.

[hooligan]

I've only been reloading for about 4 years but my FIL who teaches me has been doing it for 40+ and he's always told me pick the book you like and go with their max or near the max then load up and down at .5gr increments and let the crono tell you what is best. One of the loads that worked best for the 6.5cm was close to 5gr over max in the hornady manual, then I changed to ADG brass from Nosler and my SD was completely different.

I agree with M16, a little hotter doesn't make em anymore dead and my misses at long range still aren't on target

[tpepper70]

The Max reported on the books is for a specific rifle, barrel, primer, case combination.
different test guns will result in different max. Anything different and your max will be different than the book. That’s why you should start below max.

Agreed. I always start below max and work up. Thanks for reply.

[tpepper70]

I've only been reloading for about 4 years but my FIL who teaches me has been doing it for 40+ and he's always told me pick the book you like and go with their max or near the max then load up and down at .5gr increments and let the crono tell you what is best. One of the loads that worked best for the 6.5cm was close to 5gr over max in the hornady manual, then I changed to ADG brass from Nosler and my SD was completely different.

I agree with M16, a little hotter doesn't make em anymore dead and my misses at long range still aren't on target

Yep, that's what I'm seeing. Really great groups and low SD is what I'm seeing with the hot loads. Just another node. Book max is also very nice.
I agree. At the ranges I hunt, 30-30 will work. We do like to stretch out to 1000 target shooting in the off season.
Thanks for the reply.

[geezer56]

I first started reloading in 1972. I've loaded for 40 plus calibers and more rifles than I can remember. That top row is too hot. Primer flow is excessive. It looks like it's approaching a pierced primer. I've never seen but one rifle that shot better groups loaded really hot than it did backed off a bit. You are not in a danger zone, but your primer pockets will loosen up quickly and case mouths start cracking. Brass life goes away quickly at that level. It's easier on brass and the rifle if you back off a little.

[tpepper70]

I first started reloading in 1972. I've loaded for 40 plus calibers and more rifles than I can remember. That top row is too hot. Primer flow is excessive. It looks like it's approaching a pierced primer. I've never seen but one rifle that shot better groups loaded really hot than it did backed off a bit. You are not in a danger zone, but your primer pockets will loosen up quickly and case mouths start cracking. Brass life goes away quickly at that level. It's easier on brass and the rifle if you back off a little.

Appreciate the reply. I agree, primer flow is there. I have thousands of brass so not worried about that. Almost all the rifles I load for have a low charge node and a higher charge node, but the high charge has always been at or under book max. This is my first time pushing it and I've basically found 3 nodes now. Low charge at about middle of book loads, top of book charge and now another at 2.7grs over max book. I will prob back it down to book now. Thanks again.

[huntandfishguy6]

As stated above there is a significant deviation between reloading manuals. I have old reloading manuals, and newer ones. It continues to surprise me in the differences, and I have been loading for forty three years.

[tpepper70]

As stated above there is a significant deviation between reloading manuals. I have old reloading manuals, and newer ones. It continues to surprise me in the differences, and I have been loading for forty three years.

Yep. Some loads are a huge difference. Thanks for the reply.