Determining the age of deer full technique review

[Encinal]

Accepted, and friendship extended to you, Encinal. I don’t recall my comment on feeding, but my apologies for making anyone feel lesser under any circumstances.

Comparing wear in that extreme case would certainly be telling and very interesting. And it would be easy to do as a researcher could just look over the high fences for comparison, though I wouldn't see applications for the average TX property. But, hey, if TPWD has kept jaws of all those pen deer they've been killing, sample size would already be taken care of.

I think you would probably get more cooperation from breeders with natural attrition, or during handling. You might even get information about rate of wear for individuals as they age which could be interesting.

Don’t think the department is going to be keeping any more material than they have to out of depopulated facilities and the optics wouldn’t be great if non CWD related study was done on destroyed animals.

[Top Of Texas]

I think you would probably get more cooperation from breeders with natural attrition, or during handling. You might even get information about rate of wear for individuals as they age which could be interesting.

Don’t think the department is going to be keeping any more material than they have to out of depopulated facilities and the optics wouldn’t be great if non CWD related study was done on destroyed animals.

Admittedly, that comment was just a passive aggressive left-hook at TPWD

[Top Of Texas]

I mean he did say he thought 90% of teeth underestimated deer by 3 to 4 years

Also note the wide range of answers from interviewees to that question. It reveals the differences in life experiences, perspectives, and interpretations of observations, and to a greater degree the undefinable and complex variability in the natural world in which there are no "always" or "nevers." It doesn't have to be about right or wrong.

The point being - tooth wear stinks for determining the actual age of a deer, particularly old deer. But it's good enough, most of the time, to tell me if I'm selecting old deer or not. And if I'm consistently not, then that allows me the opportunity to alter my selection process or methodology.

[Encinal]

Also note the wide range of answers from interviewees to that question. It reveals the differences in life experiences, perspectives, and interpretations of observations, and to a greater degree the undefinable and complex variability in the natural world in which there are no "always" or "nevers." It doesn't have to be about right or wrong.

The point being - tooth wear stinks for determining the actual age of a deer, particularly old deer. But it's good enough, most of the time, to tell me if I'm selecting old deer or not. And if I'm consistently not, then that allows me the opportunity to alter my selection process or methodology.

Antlers are good enough to tell you if you are selecting old deer or not most of the time. And you can see those without killing them. Just being Devil's advocate here.

[Top Of Texas]

Antlers are good enough to tell you if you are selecting old deer or not most of the time. And you can see those without killing them. Just being Devil's advocate here.

😈

[LuckyCards2006]

Ok, I have been asked to post this deer and pictures of the teeth on this thread.

History with this deer named Diesel, my son named him this back in 2017.

First pictures was taken back in 2017, then I have a few going forward, my guess he was 3-4 yrs old in 2017, he was taken this year. We found his sheds last year and scored him right at 182. This year he was shot and had around 8-10 inches broken off, which puts him around the 182-184 mark, as I scored him as is at 174, which IMO his best antlers.


2017



This was 2023-24 season:

[LuckyCards2006]

Wow, that did not come out the way I expected, post and pictures are all screwed up. My apologies.

[LuckyCards2006]

Needless to say, you can see his teeth, pushing a 9-10yr old buck based on pictures, but teeth only look 5-6, can't age deer by teeth, only by history and with pictures.

[GarGuy]

Wow, that did not come out the way I expected, post and pictures are all screwed up. My apologies.

Baby killer! I mean if the hunter is happy with him it's OK but if you wanna kill deer at peak antlers, you shot him 2 yrs too young. If it makes you happy to kill young deer well, it's legal but some ranchers are learning to age deer better on the hoof so young deer like this can reach peak antler growth.

I learned all that on this thread. How did I do?

[LuckyCards2006]

Baby killer! I mean if the hunter is happy with him it's OK but if you wanna kill deer at peak antlers, you shot him 2 yrs too young. If it makes you happy to kill young deer well, it's legal but some ranchers are learning to age deer better on the hoof so young deer like this can reach peak antler growth.

I learned all that on this thread. How did I do?

I agree, maybe should have let him go another year, lol. But seriously, how can you predict their best year?? Or even know how long they can last? I let this deer go till I believe he had his best antlers and took a chance. Maybe he could've been bigger this coming year, or maybe died?

[GarGuy]

Lol. He's 9 or ten. Perfect time to shoot him. If you show those teeth to a biologist though, your gonna get some version of what I just posted. The implication is that you don't know what a mature deer looks like and maybe you should learn to field judge age better so you dont shoot 4 yr olds.

[RMW]

So the teeth missed this deers age by 4-5 years, guess that’s good enough?

[Chance Love]

LuckyCards, that is what we see time and time again. Good post.

ToT’s intent with that video is to get folks to understand you can’t pinpoint age by teeth. This I agree with. But the theory that deer have their best antler years once they have one or two dished molars, is a theory I will not agree with. Largely because by “biologist think”, a dished molar or two equates to a 7-8 year old deer. We typically do not see dished molars until 10+. And we usually just don’t want to wait THAT long on a buck. On average ours seem to peak in years 8-10…regardless of the condition of their teeth.

[Top Of Texas]

Ok, I have been asked to post this deer and pictures of the teeth on this thread.

History with this deer named Diesel, my son named him this back in 2017.

First pictures was taken back in 2017, then I have a few going forward, my guess he was 3-4 yrs old in 2017, he was taken this year. We found his sheds last year and scored him right at 182. This year he was shot and had around 8-10 inches broken off, which puts him around the 182-184 mark, as I scored him as is at 174, which IMO his best antlers.

Thanks, Lucky! Appreciate you sharing again. And if you haven't yet, please be sure to watch the video. And you might peruse through comments and posts on this thread.

These teeth actually show 4-5 yrs! No dished molar to classify as a 6yr.

What region in Texas is the property located?

[GarGuy]

Yep. By the books he's a 4yr old on one side and 5 on the other