protein feed?

[AJ the TP Guru]

TraceMax by ADM. Their mill is in Comanche (not too far from you). Plus they'll customize the feed for you, and likely recommend other supplementals or food plot options.

[Codie]

Check out Rack Plus from ADM Alliance Nutrition. Our deer are REALLY liking it - we will see what the results are, but I have plenty of reliable resources that swear by the stuff.

[jimbotx]

I used Record Rack from ADM and we didn't get what we thought or wanted for results we did a test on several protein pellets and found that Lyssey and Eckols had the best % of minerals for good horn growth. We use 17% in the pen and 20% out in the pasture. You have to order at least 6 tons at a time to get them to deliver.

[william]

Our place used Antler max for 7 years and never saw a big difference...We have started Lyssy and Eckels the first of February so we will see.....also I think to many of us see adding protein as a fix to our lack of big buck problems...to me protein is the advantage to when the drought hits or the winter is extra bad, cold weather lingers longer not allowing forbs and weeds to start growing....the bad times of the year, it's gives the deer a boost on the food they need during bad times....

I agree with what you said that protein should be a supplement and not to try and grow something you don’t have. I have run Antlermax now for 5 years with good results. I tried the Record Rack and my deer did not eat as well. I am sure that in different areas the deer will have different taste.

[tommy1005]

We just started using livengood 20%.....we will see how it goes. The guys around us are going through 3000/month, so I'm hoping the 1500 I put out last weekend will be gone when I head back out there March 26th. I think there are people using antlermax, rack plus, livengood, and L&E on the ranch. This is my first go at feeding protein, so we will see what it does.

[Antler Boost]

Whatever feed you use....

i work on a big game ranch in brownwood texas called the cutbirth ranch, and we have started to get our buck to do ratio just right and weve brought in some different genetics, but i was just wondering if anyone has a great luck with a certain brand of protein pellets for their deer, we use a feed from Bryant feed Co. but havent got the results we really want and was just wondering if anyone has a feed that really puts out results. thanks yall

take some time to send off some samples yourself and check for two things - fat content and by-pass protein which is also called RUP (rumen undegraded protein). Those two things will impact antler development more than any two things you pay for in feed. Fat will stimulate consumption and decrease stress as it gives lots of energy. By-pass protein is what really pushes out antler development as it provides amino acids in an unaltered form into the bloodstream. Most feeds run 2-3% in fat and 20-25% by-pass protein. What you want is 5-7% fat and 35%+ by-pass protein. Both of these types of ingredients are very expensive and why they are frequently excluded from feeds. But if a deer is only going to eat X number of pounds of feed out of a trough per day - you want every bite to be as effective as possible.

The other thing that you would like to be able to test for is amino acid content of the feed but you would go broke trying to test it. Testing for all the other important ingredients runs about $40 per sample.

[WFGService]

I can't ever tell if it's the protien feed or the amount of rainfall that makes the bucks bigger at times.

[FCTrapper]

I can't ever tell if it's the protien feed or the amount of rainfall that makes the bucks bigger at times.

You never will...... It's kinda like the movie "field of dreams". Build it and they will come. Haha

Protein is like rain in a bag. When you don't have any rain it sure helps the ONE'S that are on it. It's called being proactive!!

You can never substitute rain.

[jkf123]

We have been feeding 20% Antlermax for 3 years (Feb to October) on our HF ranch. We have seen some decent gains on the antlers and nice weight gains year over year on both bucks and does. Whether the gains are due to the protein is anyones guess. All the deer on our place are native Hill Country deer with no imported genetics.

[jkf123]

We have been feeding 20% Antlermax for 3 years (Feb to October) on our HF ranch. We have seen some decent gains on the antlers and nice weight gains year over year on both bucks and does. Whether the gains are due to the protein is anyones guess. All the deer on our place are native Hill Country deer with no imported genetics.

I stand corrected. We are and have been using Antlers Plus not Antlermax. $7/50

[whitetailfanatic]

Check with the Gore Bros in Comanche and see if they can help you out.
Good luck to ya!

[walshmag]

i have talked to a lot of people about it you want to run something under 20 percent because the deer cant really get the full 20 percent. Everyone said that 16 is prime. I mix it with a little corn to make them eat more it works well. I use country acres 16 percent.

[Antler Boost]

That's a little bit of a smokescreen used in the feed biz....

i have talked to a lot of people about it you want to run something under 20 percent because the deer cant really get the full 20 percent. Everyone said that 16 is prime. I mix it with a little corn to make them eat more it works well. I use country acres 16 percent.

All protein is either 1 of 2 kinds:

1) Ruminally Digested Protein (RDP) - gets broken down in the first stomach (rumen) of a deer by microbes that aid a deer's stomach in digestion. The vast majority of nutrients including protein that are broken down by rumen microbes are in vastly different form coming out of the rumen than the form at which they entered.

2) Rumen Undegraded Protein (RUP - also called Bypass protein) - this is protein that is protected from rumen breakdown and goes into the small intestine (deer's 2nd stomach) in unaltered form.

What you are talking about is RDP. The rumen microbes can only process a maximum average level of 15-19% protein AT A GIVEN TIME. Keep in mind that there is other protein from natural browse and food plot forages that is in the rumen and "waters down" any high protein that enters the rumen at given time and lowers the maximum average level of protein. Anything above that maximum average level is excreted as urea mostly as urine.

The thing to keep in mind is that RDP gets altered in the rumen by the microbes and how much gets to the small intestine is not as critical as how much bypass protein (RUP) is in the feed. At least in terms of antler growth. Pure, unaltered protein in RUP is critical to antler growth. And since RUP does not even factor into the equation (remember that it passes right through the rumen without being broken down) of that maximum average level of 15-19% protein, the amount of RDP given off of urea is not a critical factor to consider.

This is a real-world example of some feeds you will find day in and day out:

Feed X is 20% crude protein. There is 25% bypass protein in this feed and 75% of the protein is RDP. If you multiply it out, RDP is 15% (.75 x 20%) protein and RUP is 5% protein (.25 x 20%). There is only 5% protein that is really impacting antler development. The RDP of 15% is within that range of 15-19% so there is probably very little to zero excess being given off as urea waste.


Feed Y is 16% crude protein. There is 23% bypass protein in this feed and 77% of the protein is RDP. Multiplied out, RDP (.77 x 16%) is 12.32% and RUP (.23 x 16%) is 3.68%. There is only 3.68% protein that is really impacting antler development. Again, there will be little excess urea waste in this feed.


Feed Z is 21% crude protein. There is 35% bypass protein in this feed and 65% RDP. Multiplied out - RDP (.65 x 21%) = 13.65% and RUP (.35 x 21%) = 7.35%. There is TWICE the amount of protein impacting antler development as Feed Y. There is almost 50% more protein impacting antler development as Feed X.


Given that Feed Z also has more fat in it than the other two, which feed would you pick when the price is less than $2 more per bag than the lowest feed on the market? If a deer is only going to eat a certain amount of feed out of the trough you have got to get the most performance you can get. Excess RDP is almost never an issue in deer feeds until you get over 25% crude protein as RDP is often 75% (.75 x 25 = 18.75%) in those feeds.

[jkf123]

All protein is either 1 of 2 kinds:

1) Ruminally Digested Protein (RDP) - gets broken down in the first stomach (rumen) of a deer by microbes that aid a deer's stomach in digestion. The vast majority of nutrients including protein that are broken down by rumen microbes are in vastly different form coming out of the rumen than the form at which they entered.

2) Rumen Undegraded Protein (RUP - also called Bypass protein) - this is protein that is protected from rumen breakdown and goes into the small intestine (deer's 2nd stomach) in unaltered form.

What you are talking about is RDP. The rumen microbes can only process a maximum average level of 15-19% protein AT A GIVEN TIME. Keep in mind that there is other protein from natural browse and food plot forages that is in the rumen and "waters down" any high protein that enters the rumen at given time and lowers the maximum average level of protein. Anything above that maximum average level is excreted as urea mostly as urine.

The thing to keep in mind is that RDP gets altered in the rumen by the microbes and how much gets to the small intestine is not as critical as how much bypass protein (RUP) is in the feed. At least in terms of antler growth. Pure, unaltered protein in RUP is critical to antler growth. And since RUP does not even factor into the equation (remember that it passes right through the rumen without being broken down) of that maximum average level of 15-19% protein, the amount of RDP given off of urea is not a critical factor to consider.

This is a real-world example of some feeds you will find day in and day out:

Feed X is 20% crude protein. There is 25% bypass protein in this feed and 75% of the protein is RDP. If you multiply it out, RDP is 15% (.75 x 20%) protein and RUP is 5% protein (.25 x 20%). There is only 5% protein that is really impacting antler development. The RDP of 15% is within that range of 15-19% so there is probably very little to zero excess being given off as urea waste.


Feed Y is 16% crude protein. There is 23% bypass protein in this feed and 77% of the protein is RDP. Multiplied out, RDP (.77 x 16%) is 12.32% and RUP (.23 x 16%) is 3.68%. There is only 3.68% protein that is really impacting antler development. Again, there will be little excess urea waste in this feed.


Feed Z is 21% crude protein. There is 35% bypass protein in this feed and 65% RDP. Multiplied out - RDP (.65 x 21%) = 13.65% and RUP (.35 x 21%) = 7.35%. There is TWICE the amount of protein impacting antler development as Feed Y. There is almost 50% more protein impacting antler development as Feed X.


Given that Feed Z also has more fat in it than the other two, which feed would you pick when the price is less than $2 more per bag than the lowest feed on the market? If a deer is only going to eat a certain amount of feed out of the trough you have got to get the most performance you can get. Excess RDP is almost never an issue in deer feeds until you get over 25% crude protein as RDP is often 75% (.75 x 25 = 18.75%) in those feeds.

Thanks for the breakdown Antler Boost. Do you know if a chart exists showing the RUP of popular protein feeds on the market?

[Antler Boost]

I've got some data on some....

Thanks for the breakdown Antler Boost. Do you know if a chart exists showing the RUP of popular protein feeds on the market?

but I really can't publish by brand name because of litigation risk. The big feed companies all have big pockets for lawyers and I do not. What I can tell you is I have yet to test a feed that is higher than 25% RUP and I have tested lots of them - not all but I plan on having them almost all tested in the next year (I'll leave one or two out on purpose to cover my butt). But to answer your question - no, there is not a chart out there. Nobody out there wants to fight these things in court. Honestly, not many people out there are doing the research and testing - not even breeders. I am hooked up with some of the biggest and most well known breeders in the U.S. from Pennsylvania to Indiana to Alabama to Texas and almost none of them understand RUP and even if they did, they wouldn't publish the results for fear of litigation. They have tested for other things they feel important and will not publish those things either.