Bare shaft tuning info

[Arrowsmith]

Help me here.
Is my theory doable?

Ok Richard. I will bite like one of your big bass at Fork.

If I can get a bare shaft to hit the same hole (or very close) to my fletched field tipped arrow at 20 yards......then my fletched broad head tipped arrow will be very close. Maybe not perfect but very close. Why ? Because the bare shaft has no guidance, zero, zilch, nada, nothing to guide it or correct errors in flight due to bow tuning issues. This mean that the arrow shaft is leaving the rest in a straight and level condition. The broad head tipped arrow may take (or it may not take) some very slight tweaking of the rest or manipulating the control cable to get to get the POI exactly right. Again why ? I will venture to say because of different fixed broad head blade sizes and configurations. Some broadheads take more tuning....some take less. Or it is because the yoke tuning that got the bare shaft hitting the same hole as the fletched arrow slightly "de-tuned" the cam timing.

Yes in theory. I have been doing lots of testing. Mainly because I'm shooting a 215 gn tip. So my question has been how do I know if I have the correct spine. I use the programs. But again how do I know. This is why I'm doing testing. Lots of tuners make me look less then a beginner. But none tell me how do you know if the arrow is correct. I know you can take a bare shaft and tune it to do exactly what your doing. My problem with this is draw length has to be perfect. Form perfect. Then you adjust rest and yoke tune. All this makes the arrow fly. But none correct if spine is incorrect.

Arrowsmith. Here seems to do a great job of bare shaft tuning, but I think he is still taking a arrow from chart, program. Them making adjustments to the bow. I might be wrong.

I think you still need to do these steps but only after the time has been spent getting the correct spine.

If this is all done in theory for now, if you set up arrows this way I don't see why at least less then 50 yards why you can't take different arrows with different tip weights and the only adjustment should be up/dn.

So rocky back to your question. If the arrow is correctly spined. And the bow is tuned. Then yes the arrow should be directly in front of string so all should hit together.

I do believe there is going to be some broadheads that are going to take more steering then others, and blazer vanes are not going to do it.

I would like to get some help from you. If you don't mind. If so pm me your number. Thanks

enewman. I used to live in Mesquite, Texas. A man much older and wiser told me......son...there is more than one way to get to Mesquite. He was basically telling me that there was more than one way to accomplish a task.

Yes. I have trimmed arrow shafts to properly spine my arrows. Shoot it. Take the point (target arrows) or insert (hunting arrows) out. Cut it. Shoot it. Take the insert out. Cut it. Shoot it. Cut it. Shoot it...... you know the routine. I have found that the On Target2 program is very accurate as long as you have entered the data for the bow/arrow set up correctly. Also is seems that modern day carbon arrow shafts are somewhat more forgiving than aluminum shafts of days gone by.

Your method of getting your arrow spine correct will definitely work and I respect your methods. I take the high tech approach and let the program get me very close on arrow spine......plus I pretty much know where to start based on draw length/draw weight/arrow type/arrow length/point weight, etc.

When you fix the lateral nock travel, you can shoot properly spined, and slightly weak and super stiff arrows out of the same bow, with fletched and with bareshaft arrows.

ONLY when you shoot a compound bow with FINGERS, will you get a weak arrow shaft reaction with bareshafts hitting right of the fletched arrows and will you get a STIFF arrow shaft reaction with bareshafts hitting left of the fletched arrows.

Ever see a FINGERS shooter with a compound bow try the GoldTip Triple X
arrows, with 100 grain points or Easton Full Bore arrows with 100 grain points?

It won't work.

With a release, you can tune a compound bow to shoot CE XJammer Pros, X-Cutters, 30X, or the Triple X arrows, no problem.

[enewman]

Arrowsmith. Thanks for the info. I know what I'm doing is nothing new just old ways. And you are correct. The new tech is so much easier. I guess what got me looking at this was just what you said. With fingers. Weak arrow to the right. Everything I was reading and was weak to the right. Even easton chart states if bare shafts hit right of fletch it's weak. There are a lot of people using the easton chart. I can see why people have a hard time bare shaft tuning. Thanks again.

Everything I was doing was backwards. So now here I am.

New technology is always great, but sometimes it's hard to beat the old ways.

[old killer]

You may have been tuning a shaft and point to the point of impact but not to corret the spine. Arrowsmith is referring to getting the correct spine at a given poundage and point weight.
To check for correct spine you need to put the rest in the center and have a level nock point. You start with a long shaft and cut till you get a bullet hole.
You were changing point weight and shooting to see if it was the same as the sight. It had nothing to do with getting the spine correct.

[BURTONboy]

Interesting read, thanks for posting

[enewman]

You may have been tuning a shaft and point to the point of impact but not to corret the spine. Arrowsmith is referring to getting the correct spine at a given poundage and point weight.
To check for correct spine you need to put the rest in the center and have a level nock point. You start with a long shaft and cut till you get a bullet hole.
You were changing point weight and shooting to see if it was the same as the sight. It had nothing to do with getting the spine correct.

Actually I did what I did to prove a point on what happens. It was just to show what the spine will do.i was not tuning at that point. The tuning I'm doing is cutting the shaft. This just a part 3 of a post I'm doing. Also very few people do this. And most have never even heard of what I'm doing. It's just another step in to getting a better arrow. It's just a old way of doing things that technology has passed up. But with all technology sometimes it's not the best.

I'm start a tuning method because most people use the easton chart. It is missing parts. Most people tune by moving rest. That is fine but they are leaving out the most important part. Correct spine. Most take a arrow cut it to a length. Then shoot through paper adjust rest till bullet hole.

Nothing wrong with this for the average hunter.

The reason I'm working on this is I shoot with at least 200 gn up front. To do this and get good flight you need to find correct spine. A program is great, but how do you know it's right.

If you shoot your bow once or twice a month. Then practice a month before season and hunt at 20 or so yards then what I'm doing is a waist of time. If your doing something out of the ordinary. Then this is a method worth looking at. Again it's just one more step into a better tuning job.

Then again I just could be full of crap

[rocky]

Ok Richard. I will bite like one of your big bass at Fork.

If I can get a bare shaft to hit the same hole (or very close) to my fletched field tipped arrow at 20 yards......then my fletched broad head tipped arrow will be very close. Maybe not perfect but very close. Why ? Because the bare shaft has no guidance, zero, zilch, nada, nothing to guide it or correct errors in flight due to bow tuning issues. This mean that the arrow shaft is leaving the rest in a straight and level condition. The broad head tipped arrow may take (or it may not take) some very slight tweaking of the rest or manipulating the control cable to get to get the POI exactly right. Again why ? I will venture to say because of different fixed broad head blade sizes and configurations. Some broadheads take more tuning....some take less. Or it is because the yoke tuning that got the bare shaft hitting the same hole as the fletched arrow slightly "de-tuned" the cam timing.



enewman. I used to live in Mesquite, Texas. A man much older and wiser told me......son...there is more than one way to get to Mesquite. He was basically telling me that there was more than one way to accomplish a task.

Yes. I have trimmed arrow shafts to properly spine my arrows. Shoot it. Take the point (target arrows) or insert (hunting arrows) out. Cut it. Shoot it. Take the insert out. Cut it. Shoot it. Cut it. Shoot it...... you know the routine. I have found that the On Target2 program is very accurate as long as you have entered the data for the bow/arrow set up correctly. Also is seems that modern day carbon arrow shafts are somewhat more forgiving than aluminum shafts of days gone by.

Your method of getting your arrow spine correct will definitely work and I respect your methods. I take the high tech approach and let the program get me very close on arrow spine......plus I pretty much know where to start based on draw length/draw weight/arrow type/arrow length/point weight, etc.

When you fix the lateral nock travel, you can shoot properly spined, and slightly weak and super stiff arrows out of the same bow, with fletched and with bareshaft arrows.

ONLY when you shoot a compound bow with FINGERS, will you get a weak arrow shaft reaction with bareshafts hitting right of the fletched arrows and will you get a STIFF arrow shaft reaction with bareshafts hitting left of the fletched arrows.

Ever see a FINGERS shooter with a compound bow try the GoldTip Triple X
arrows, with 100 grain points or Easton Full Bore arrows with 100 grain points?

It won't work.

With a release, you can tune a compound bow to shoot CE XJammer Pros, X-Cutters, 30X, or the Triple X arrows, no problem.

One day I'll catch one of these Fork big bass.
Most hunters want BH tipped fletched shafts to impact same as FP fletched shafts to yardages out to 60,70, even 80 yards.
Can a bare shaft and a fletched shaft BH accomplish this, especially at speed over 280 fps?

Actually I did what I did to prove a point on what happens. It was just to show what the spine will do.i was not tuning at that point. The tuning I'm doing is cutting the shaft. This just a part 3 of a post I'm doing. Also very few people do this. And most have never even heard of what I'm doing. It's just another step in to getting a better arrow. It's just a old way of doing things that technology has passed up. But with all technology sometimes it's not the best.

I'm start a tuning method because most people use the easton chart. It is missing parts. Most people tune by moving rest. That is fine but they are leaving out the most important part. Correct spine. Most take a arrow cut it to a length. Then shoot through paper adjust rest till bullet hole.

Nothing wrong with this for the average hunter.

The reason I'm working on this is I shoot with at least 200 gn up front. To do this and get good flight you need to find correct spine. A program is great, but how do you know it's right.

If you shoot your bow once or twice a month. Then practice a month before season and hunt at 20 or so yards then what I'm doing is a waist of time. If your doing something out of the ordinary. Then this is a method worth looking at. Again it's just one more step into a better tuning job.

Then again I just could be full of crap

Rarely does the "average" hunter shoot a BH over 125 grains.
Nowadays, the "average" hunter is shooting 400 grains, (+/-) with a 125 grain point or less, and with only approximately 4 shaft/ spines to choose from, they simply get a shop to recommend the proper shaft for their particular set-up, and BH tune.
So, getting deep into tuning is "out there" for the "average" hunter.
Paper tune to identify flagrant issues, then BH tune to the yardage you're content.
Most "average" shooters can't accomplish this elementary step.

[Arrowsmith]

One day I'll catch one of these Fork big bass.
Most hunters want BH tipped fletched shafts to impact same as FP fletched shafts to yardages out to 60,70, even 80 yards.
Can a bare shaft and a fletched shaft BH accomplish this, especially at speed over 280 fps?

Richard. I have never tried to shoot a bare shaft over 30 yards but theoretically yes. If the arrow is leaving the bow perfectly straight and level it should fly perfectly straight for any distance. Of course your form would have to be perfect as well. A bare shaft will radically "rat out" any tuning issues and any form issues.


Nowadays, the "average" hunter is shooting 400 grains, (+/-) with a 125 grain point or less, and with only approximately 4 shaft/ spines to choose from, they simply get a shop to recommend the proper shaft for their particular set-up, and BH tune.
So, getting deep into tuning is "out there" for the "average" hunter.
Paper tune to identify flagrant issues, then BH tune to the yardage you're content.
Most "average" shooters can't accomplish this elementary step.

This is very true.

[rocky]

On another note, as strings are worn after shooting, servings ,(even the best), have a tendancy to "flatten", and separate around posts, and DL modules, causing slight changes in overall tune.
Combatting these slight changes is a nightmare
for "perfectionists".
Not to mention the machining differences in the cam grooves from bow to bow.
Perfection is hard to achieve.

[enewman]

Your right rocky. Perfection is hard to achieve. But I thought I would try. I'm failing horribly. Haha

[Pushbutton2]

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[Pushbutton2]

Bare shaft tuning info

Your right rocky. Perfection is hard to achieve. But I thought I would try. I'm failing horribly. Haha

Quote:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

Vince Lombardi


I might make this my signature!

[enewman]

Quote:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

Vince Lombardi


I might make this my signature!

I like that my self

[100%TtId]

Help me here.
Is my theory doable?

Would drag and extra weight from fletching and the BH make the POIs different? BH likely impacting lower even at close distances?

[rocky]

Would drag and extra weight from fletching and the BH make the POIs different? BH likely impacting lower even at close distances?

I can't answer this, as I've never bare-shaft tuned a bow.
Never saw the point.
I just like to ask these guys questions to get their reaction.

[enewman]

I can't answer this, as I've never bare-shaft tuned a bow.
Never saw the point.
I just like to ask these guys questions to get their reaction.

Morning Rocky.