Why Can't we have a UBI?

[WItoTX]

I enjoy challenging my own beliefs, and do it often. One question I have been stuck on this week, why not create a Universal Basic Income?

If your response is, it will drive up costs of goods and services, or we don't have the money, you haven't thought through the issue. We already pay people A LOT of money between unemployment, health care, welfare, food stamps, etc...We already have built in a version of UBI that is a disjointed mess.

Also, can you tell me why a UBI could work? Why not cancel all handouts like mentioned above, and give EVERYONE a basic income that will cover very basic foods, basic health care, and basic housing?

[Ætheling]

A UBI will be necessary at some point in the future when full automation occurs. At some point humans wont be required to work anymore. We are no where near that point yet but it will happen. Who will buy the goods the robots make if no one has an income?

[kcnatural]

communism

[47]

I would trade a UBI for the guaranteed removal of every ILLEGAL currently residing inside our borders.

[Walker]

communism

It has NEVER worked and it will NEVER work.

[SaltwaterSlick]

Pretty simple really... The real deal should be if you don't work, you don't eat. Period, end of discussion... no self-challenge needed.

[Pushbutton2]

We've already got it.
Unemployment, SSDI, Welfare etc

You own a business? New hires are standing in to come work, right?

The place I work is @ 50% staff. People are making it off unemployment and not having to pay rent. Than since they're low income they get food stamps.

It won't work. People will get even lazier than they are now.

[WItoTX]

communism

So we are a communist country? Because we already hand money out like it's our job. It's just not called UBI.

Pretty simple really... The real deal should be if you don't work, you don't eat. Period, end of discussion... no self-challenge needed.

Sure, and I share your opinion. It's the way we are raising our family.

But my struggle is that we ALREADY pay people for various things, with very little or no hoops to jump through to get them. So if we are going to do that, why not wipe the slate clean, get rid of ALL handouts, and say here you go, here is $***X.XX dollars a month. Do what you will with it. Good luck.

My personal opinion is we need to drastically cut these social safety nets because they are being abused as they stand now. Since that will never happen, what if we changed how it's done and simplified the process?

[RiverRat1]

Pretty simple really... The real deal should be if you don't work, you don't eat. Period, end of discussion... no self-challenge needed.

Just like the Bible says.

So we are a communist country? Because we already hand money out like it's our job. It's just not called UBI.

Sure, and I share your opinion. It's the way we are raising our family.

But my struggle is that we ALREADY pay people for various things, with very little or no hoops to jump through to get them. So if we are going to do that, why not wipe the slate clean, get rid of ALL handouts, and say here you go, here is $***X.XX dollars a month. Do what you will with it. Good luck.

My personal opinion is we need to drastically cut these social safety nets because they are being abused as they stand now. Since that will never happen, what if we changed how it's done and simplified the process?

You can think all you want. But I would wager all I have that if we did a UBI they would not get rid of all the other handouts.

Also difference is free loaders choose to be on welfare. A lot of good people choose to not be even during rough times. UBI makes everyone on welfare to a point with no choice. Gee I wonder how well that would work out LOL

[WItoTX]

You can think all you want. But I would wager all I have that if we did a UBI they would not get rid of all the other handouts.

Also difference is free loaders choose to be on welfare. A lot of good people choose to not be even during rough times. UBI makes everyone on welfare to a point with no choice. Gee I wonder how well that would work out LOL

It's really a critical thinking exercise. Just because we aren't calling the **** a ****, doesn't make it smell any less. So why not develop a plan that is more straight forward and honest?

Because if we really want to take this all the way to the end. Imagine we give everyone over 18 $1500 a month. Arguably, common minimum wage shops (fast food, box stores, restaurants) could reduce what they have to pay their employees. There is no more argument for "living wage". No more demonizing owners that they don't pay what liberals consider "enough".

[Dusty Britches]

communism

^^^^^^ m

No incentive to produce.

What many fail to realize is basic valuation concept. Even in a zero dollar society, certain things have value and certain things do not. For example, here in the US we have tons of water. So much so that we pull it out of the ground, pour so much on our yards that it runs into the streets. We value it very little because it is in abundance.

In the Middle East, they fight wars over water. Get that - they kill whole families just to have enough to drink.

The more abundant things are they less value they have.

If everyone has the same number of dollars to start with, that will not change how we value things but it will make things cost more in terms of dollars because we will have so many more dollars but the same number of resources. Dollars will be valued less.

That is the concept of valuation and why inflation happens.

[CEO]

It's really a critical thinking exercise. Just because we aren't calling the **** a ****, doesn't make it smell any less. So why not develop a plan that is more straight forward and honest?

Because if we really want to take this all the way to the end. Imagine we give everyone over 18 $1500 a month. Arguably, common minimum wage shops (fast food, box stores, restaurants) could reduce what they have to pay their employees. There is no more argument for "living wage". No more demonizing owners that they don't pay what liberals consider "enough".

I have to disagree with you here. As long as one person has more than others, politicians will use it to their advantage. "Enough" will never be enough.

If it is true that people aren't working because of handouts, and that is a portion of our supply chain problem, the argument is over. We can't pay people to be unproductive layabouts when work needs to be done to keep the country moving in a positive direction.

I did see a headline yesterday where LA is giving a number of families $1,000/month on a pilot program. Like stated above though, our multiple handouts are just UBI under a different label.

[RiverRat1]

It's really a critical thinking exercise. Just because we aren't calling the **** a ****, doesn't make it smell any less. So why not develop a plan that is more straight forward and honest?

Because if we really want to take this all the way to the end. Imagine we give everyone over 18 $1500 a month. Arguably, common minimum wage shops (fast food, box stores, restaurants) could reduce what they have to pay their employees. There is no more argument for "living wage". No more demonizing owners that they don't pay what liberals consider "enough".

And I'm telling you none of that will go away. Liberals will still say poor people are getting the shaft. There's zero rabbit hole one can go down to make things better when "they" are never satisfied.

[J-5]

I would trade a UBI for the guaranteed removal of every ILLEGAL currently residing inside our borders.

And make **** sure they or others don’t re-enter illegally or by any other means. Mandatory drug testing...and my list would go on and on.

[WItoTX]

I have to disagree with you here. As long as one person has more than others, politicians will use it to their advantage. "Enough" will never be enough.

If it is true that people aren't working because of handouts, and that is a portion of our supply chain problem, the argument is over. We can't pay people to be unproductive layabouts when work needs to be done to keep the country moving in a positive direction.

I did see a headline yesterday where LA is giving a number of families $1,000/month on a pilot program. Like stated above though, our multiple handouts are just UBI under a different label.

We agree that politicians will always pit one American against another. And that's a variable I don't really consider in the equation of would UBI actually help us as a society.

One other thing. UBI is not a "living the good life" income. It would only cover cheap housing, food, healthcare, and the basic necessities. All based on the local market.

And I'm telling you none of that will go away. Liberals will still say poor people are getting the shaft. There's zero rabbit hole one can go down to make things better when "they" are never satisfied.

Okay. So take the liberals out of the factor, take politicians out of the equation. Does UBI seem like it would be a better idea than our current system?

This is all hypothetical, but its a simple thinking exercise. I personally think UBI would not disincentivize anyone from working, and might actually make more folks work as they realize ALL the work and money they make is above and beyond "just getting by". That is money for xboxes, TV's, cars, college education, whatever you want. And UBI would eliminate the argument that business owners are just screwing over its employees.

At the end of the day, we can't legislate away lazy. That will never change.