Phil for President

[Johnny44]

Jesus also said there is a narrow gate to Heaven and didn’t mention nuthin about a long line.

“For those that believe, no proof is necessary”

[SaltwaterSlick]

SH, I'd highly recommend that you read the book of John and the book of Matthew and study/meditate on those. A single passage or even a chapter is not the whole story. Jesus taught in parables. At the time he used scenarios of the present time in His day. Further, before Jesus ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, he gave his disciples (all believers) what most call The Great Commission.


Mat 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."



These are the final instructions He gave to us, that we take the Gospel to the world. Back in chapter 24 when Jesus was telling the apostles what the end of the age would look like, he mentioned that His second coming would not occur until this Gospel had indeed been delivered to the whole world and all people had the chance to receive it.



Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

This addresses the whole what about the remote tribes and peoples in the jungle or the mountains or artic, or.... wherever... I can tell you personally that this is to me a BIG sign... He will not return until everyone has been told and given the opportunity to accept it... There's a side of me that holds to the hope that some remote tribe or family is still years from being discovered and given the opportunity to accept the Gospel... I know that is rather selfish on my part and I deal with it... I am however ready if he comes at the next stroke of my keyboard. For the Bible that I study tells me that once my life has ended there is no opportunity for salvation. I have studied it extensively too for I have family members that I believe to have died without accepting God's gift of salvation through his Son and I'd sure love to be able to do something to change that... I ain't found it.


Here is another parable that Jesus told his disciples that may help you understand my point of view. This parable is profound in that it talks about exactly what you have been suggesting, that once dead, you can still be saved from the torment of separation from the Father... Look especially at Luke 16:26



Luk 16:19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
Luk 16:20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
Luk 16:21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
Luk 16:22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luk 16:26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
Luk 16:27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house—
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 "But Abraham *said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'
Luk 16:31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

[SabineHunter]

SS, thank you, I like how you write. Tell me, in Matthew 27 verse 52 he talks about graves opening on the day Jesus died and people being resurrected, did they die again and are back in a grave?

[jaime1982]

This

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[SaltwaterSlick]

SS, thank you, I like how you write. Tell me, in Matthew 27 verse 52 he talks about graves opening on the day Jesus died and people being resurrected, did they die again and are back in a grave?

We don't know, or at least "I" don't know, and I have never read or heard anyone speak on that subject specifically. I have however heard and read about Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead... Other non-Canonized texts speak of Lazarus's "second" death and how it differs from a lost person's "second" death. That death being at the final Judgement (where the sheep and goats are separated and cast aside) and eternal separation from God. Had this been important to us and contributed to who God is and something we needed to know in order to know God and have a relationship with him, He would have addressed it.



If you really meditate on the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, you can begin to understand just how devastating Hell really is. The Rich Man clearly is able to speak yet what he speaks of is torture and being burned yet alive and fully aware of his surroundings!! Can you imagine that?!! Me, I don't want no part of that!!


The two Gospels that I suggest you study, Matthew and John were written for a very specific purpose and focus on two major aspects of the "who" Jesus while here on earth was (and still is). Matthew was written to the Jews to show them that Jesus was the Messiah they were looking for. If you compare the writings in Matthew with the prophets in the Old Testament, you will see a lot of direct comparisons. Jesus even used quotes from the Old Testament to prove his points when addressing the people whether it be a small group or disciples or a crowd of thousands... He was trying to tell his people (for the Jews are God's chosen people) who he was. John was written primarily to the Jews, but Gentiles also and it focuses on the fact that Jesus was both fully Man and fully God. Putting the two together will paint a pretty clear picture of the "who" of who Jesus is.

[iamntxhunter]

Sorry, I've been at work and cant access internet at my desk so been out of the conversation for a bit. I'm on a break for a few minutes so I have a quick response before I get back to work.
Danno, intrigued is a start. I'll take it.
Like God, I don't wish to see anyone suffer the wrath of hell and I do believe it's real and I do believe some will enter for eternity. I also believe it's a choice we make before our earthly life ends. I hope you'll truly consider your choice carefully. If your wrong about your unbelief in God you will pay dearly with a price you can't imagine (none of us can). If you choose to believe in God and live a life under his grace, what have you lost if you're wrong about it. There is no penalty for it.
I wish you the very best and hope I can at least stir the conversation in you. I only want to plant seeds. God waters and provides the sunlight.

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Good post, Roly.

I to was glad to see that Danno is intrigued.
We are to plant seeds and God may have others do some or all of the watering as each circumstance is different in that sometimes the seed is already planted and we water it.
Danno I said a prayer for you and that is from love in my heart that you will come to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour.
Hell is real folks and Jesus talked about hell more than he did about heaven.

[Hogmauler]

Sabine, go and by yourself a set of commentaries. One on the Old Testament and one on the New Testament. I would start with a set of Walvord and Zuck commentaries. Then by another set. The point is that if you want to be a Berean you have to study. And by prayer, and studying Gods word , and commentaries you’ll be able to reach the answer to your questions. Earlier you wrote that you weren’t that familiar with your Bible , or something to that effect. God speaks to us primarily through His word, through prayer, through people, and through circumstances
I would suggest the same thing to Danno and was encouraged that he read the post on this thread. Danno I sincerely hope that through this lively discussion you’ll be led to seek God. A couple of good reads, the Bible being the best of course, are Jesus More Than A Carpenter, and Evidence That Demands A Verdict, which is a book that was written by an atheist trying to disprove the existence of God and becoming a Christian after his investigation proved it.

[iamntxhunter]

I will also say that reading "The Message" version helps to put a lot of things in simpler terms. When you read it and then read the (I read the new king James version) it helps to bring the message together and helps me to get a better understanding on what is being expressed. Somethings in the bible are difficult to understand for me and this helps me a lot.

[Death from Above]

I will also say that reading "The Message" version helps to put a lot of things in simpler terms. When you read it and then read the (I read the new king James version) it helps to bring the message together and helps me to get a better understanding on what is being expressed. Somethings in the bible are difficult to understand for me and this helps me a lot.

Just a note.

The Message is not the Bible but one mans version.


It has not gone thru the scrutiny and cross reference that other versions have

[iamntxhunter]

Just a note.



The Message is not the Bible but one mans version.





It has not gone thru the scrutiny and cross reference that other versions have

I know that and I would not promote it as a sole read, only in conjunction with the bible. For those that are new to the bible I believe it can be helpful, that's all.

[Death from Above]

I know that and I would not promote it as a sole read, only in conjunction with the bible. For those that are new to the bible I believe it can be helpful, that's all.

Gotcha and agreed.

[Hunteraudit]

Was not expecting this when I clicked on this thread but what a good discussion. I think SS and some others have nailed it so I won’t add much but to say good on y’all for being good disciples.

I was given a MacArthur Study Bible by my church when I graduated high school many years ago. It’s no replacement for a good pastor and prayer but it is definitely something to consider if you’re interested in studying and understanding the Bible.

[camoclad]

Grace

It's the sinners that usually push God the hardest.....

Correct

[camoclad]

Holly thread hijacks batman! This thread took a turn from my original post. I forgot I posted this, lol. Saulgoodman!

I was just thinking Phil for prez cuz hes not a politician, has buisness success, understands sustainability, understands the American judicial model, the american conservation model, is wise and discerning and can take it all or leave it. Perfect candidate. Can TBH somehow make that happen? Lol, I think yes

[Hogmauler]

See post # 5 for second Genesis of the thread!