Confederate Statue/Monument Question

[Mike D]

You don’t have to look at them as heroes. At the time they were fighting for what they thought was right though. Can’t really fault them for that.

I’m from the Deep South and I hold the Confederate battle flag dear mainly because it’s a southern pride/heritage thing.


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[DRT]

I think the call to remove them is horse hockey. I also agree the riot brigades need to be arrested tried and punished.
However I don't understand how the losers get statues.
Where are the statues of Hitler, Mussolini or any of the leaders in other nations we have put down in war?
The issue is not the statues or even slavery of the past. It's current inequities that we could easily resolve with real change to the justice and economic systems but we won't and it will create a new civil war in our nation. One that will cost us the constitution as we know it.

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[Landrover]

Rioters, looters and anarchists are opportunists.[emoji36] With that background, we have old issues and the band aids got ripped off. Perceptions are reality and the extreme corners of perceptions always tell the loudest. I will trust that the constitution is strong enough to make it through this blip in history thus the ingenuity of the drafters. Per the Confederate statues. Those on taxpayer funded open spaces should be for all.....if all dont agree that's called democracy. Trashing them is insanity as the Civil War Museum is a perfect locale. I don't agree with cancel culture! I also definitely dont believe in high profile "trophies" for folks that were not Americans (they were citizens of the confederacy) and they loss! They could have been hung for their crimes against the USA.

I thought the argument concerning the reasons for the war was settled a long time ago. This is the authority on the history in a short video:

https://youtu.be/pcy7qV-BGF4

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[sotx]

Rioters, looters and anarchists are opportunists.[emoji36] With that background, we have old issues and the band aids got ripped off. Perceptions are reality and the extreme corners of perceptions always tell the loudest. I will trust that the constitution is strong enough to make it through this blip in history thus the ingenuity of the drafters. Per the Confederate statues. Those on taxpayer funded open spaces should be for all.....if all dont agree that's called democracy. Trashing them is insanity as the Civil War Museum is a perfect locale. I don't agree with cancel culture! I also definitely dont believe in high profile "trophies" for folks that were not Americans (they were citizens of the confederacy) and they loss! They could have been hung for their crimes against the USA.

I thought the argument concerning the reasons for the war was settled a long time ago. This is the authority on the history in a short video:

https://youtu.be/pcy7qV-BGF4

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This


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[armadillophil]

It is all about cancel culture. It has been happening slowly in front of our eyes for 30 years and now it has flared up because they see an opportunity.

[batmaninja]

Trump won the election and is the sitting POTUS. How many losers are tryin to undo the will of the people and take out DJT, are they traitors to the country?

I am happy to call a loser a loser, just trying to understand what metric we are using here?

[curtintex]

To the OP’s point....if and when Antifa is crushed for trying to divide and separate this great nation, should we allow statues of their leaders to be put up in Seattle, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Portland or any other hotbed of “revolution”? I’m a descendant of the Confederacy, but make no mistake that those statues were our nations very first “Participation Trophies”. “To the victor goes the spoils” isn’t just a saying, it’s actually the result of winning. I’d have fought for my state, with the expectation that I would win or be hanged. Robert E. Lee was this nation’s best General and his decision to leave the Union was likely the toughest of his life. However, once he did so he became an enemy of the Nation and the only reason he wasn’t hanged was because Lincoln wanted the country reunited, not divided.

Confederate statues never remind me of anything but the remembrance of failure. Best way to move forward, in anything, is to learn from your failures but put them behind you.

I hate the cancel culture, but I never understood the point of celebrating failure, and let’s not forget that Lincoln’s reuniting this country is why we are a world superpower today. I’m an American and anyone that seeks to destroy or divide Her deserves to be hanged not celebrated. Not then and not now.

Let Texas secede and I’ll fight along with y’all, but we’d be tearing apart the greatest country this world has ever known and failure would and should mean death. That’s exactly how we got Texas in the first place, willing to die for it....know of any Santa Anna statues in Texas?

Just a redneck’s ramblings.....[emoji4]


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[ElfEyes]

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[cehorn]

I'm writing this before I read any replies but I will read all the replies. I tend to not really care one way or another specifically about the statues or the confederate flag for that matter. BUT a couple of thoughts come to mind.

First, I think the uproar on both sides is really stupid when we have much bigger issues to worry about. Look at Mcenany's PC from the other day. She got over a dozen questions about the confederate flag and not a single one on real issues like violence in the streets. That is a real issue. We have 100's of real issues to worry about and statues and flags aren't on the list.

Give them an inch and they will take a mile also comes to mind. Where does it stop, if it does? Statues of Lincoln, Grant, Abolitionists, Washington, etc have been torn down. If it was just the confederate statues (or bump stocks or anything liberals want to attack) it would be a lot smaller deal but everyone sees or should see the bigger problem of where they are trying to go. Confederate statues aren't the end game...

I think the purpose of the statue should also be looked at. Was the statue only erected because they were a confederate soldier? If so, that has a lot stronger argument than when the accomplishments are greater. I'm not an aggy and don't care if Sully goes but from everything I have seen fighting for the confederacy has nothing to do with why the statue is there (president of the university, other US or state elected offices, etc.). To me that is a different story and his statues worth shouldn't be based solely on being a confederate soldier. We shouldn't tear down a person's legacy or ignore everything good they did because of "mistakes" or the time they lived. Lee may be a bad example but he was much more than a confederate general to the US and had a lot of positive influence which shouldn't be forgotten or erased because he wore grey instead of blue. The same with Washington or Jefferson. Their legacy is the greatness they invoked into the US not the fact that they owned slaves. We should not erase history. We should look at it, celebrate what is good and condemn what is/was bad.

And finally to use a Louis L'Amour quote "A mistake constantly made by those who should know better is to judge people of the past by our standards rather than their own. The only way men or women can be judged is against the canvas of their own time." Nobody will argue slavery isn't and wasn't bad. But, it was a socially acceptable practice and more importantly legal back then. It is an extremely slippery slope in my opinion. What happens in 20 years when african american is no longer the pc term the same way negro, colored, etc have all gone by the wayside. Are we going to be judged by future standards for using a currently socially acceptable term? Or lets look at an extreme example and say PETA gets their way regarding dog ownership. In 50 years it could be looked at as the worst thing ever to have owned a dog. Are all current dog owners going to be removed from history or have all positive accomplishments forgotten because of dog ownership?

[Hobbs]

I think all statues on public grounds should be voted on locally (if state ground) and nationally (if federal ground). Let the majority decide on what stays and what goes and where.

I've never really considered the south as being traitors. As States, they felt the federal government was overreaching. The founders of this country had it right. Strong local and state government. Let the local people decide how they want to be governed. Right now the federal government is huge compared to what it used to be. Not what the founders envisioned but the world has changed a lot in almost 250 years.

Like it or not we are on the verge of another Civil War. Liberal vs Conservative. Democrat vs Republican. The sad part is I think most of us are not far left or far right but we have no choice but to be far left or far right. There isn't a choice for left middle or right middle. No common ground as far as representation.

So if the dems and reps go to war against each other and whichever side wins can call the other side traitors?? Hope I'm on the winning side cause I'm no traitor.

[muzzlebrake]

Rioters, looters and anarchists are opportunists.[emoji36] With that background, we have old issues and the band aids got ripped off. Perceptions are reality and the extreme corners of perceptions always tell the loudest. I will trust that the constitution is strong enough to make it through this blip in history thus the ingenuity of the drafters. Per the Confederate statues. Those on taxpayer funded open spaces should be for all.....if all dont agree that's called democracy. Trashing them is insanity as the Civil War Museum is a perfect locale. I don't agree with cancel culture! I also definitely dont believe in high profile "trophies" for folks that were not Americans (they were citizens of the confederacy) and they loss! They could have been hung for their crimes against the USA.

I thought the argument concerning the reasons for the war was settled a long time ago. This is the authority on the history in a short video:

https://youtu.be/pcy7qV-BGF4

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Seems the Col. left out some important facts. This is why you don't take everything as gospel that you see or read in the news or internet. Even this article is suspect and maybe a total different view by some. https://www.history.com/news/5-thing...d-emancipation

[RLB]

Rioters, looters and anarchists are opportunists.[emoji36] With that background, we have old issues and the band aids got ripped off. Perceptions are reality and the extreme corners of perceptions always tell the loudest. I will trust that the constitution is strong enough to make it through this blip in history thus the ingenuity of the drafters. Per the Confederate statues. Those on taxpayer funded open spaces should be for all.....if all dont agree that's called democracy. Trashing them is insanity as the Civil War Museum is a perfect locale. I don't agree with cancel culture! I also definitely dont believe in high profile "trophies" for folks that were not Americans (they were citizens of the confederacy) and they loss! They could have been hung for their crimes against the USA.

I thought the argument concerning the reasons for the war was settled a long time ago. This is the authority on the history in a short video:

https://youtu.be/pcy7qV-BGF4

We’re not a democracy, we’re a republic.

[Radar]

Seems the Col. left out some important facts. This is why you don't take everything as gospel that you see or read in the news or internet. Even this article is suspect and maybe a total different view by some. https://www.history.com/news/5-thing...d-emancipation

You do know the link you posted is from the History Channel which is owned by Disney and Hearst Communications. Two of the most liberal media owners in the US. Do you think you could trust a far left news organization for correct information? A&E is owned by the same people and they eliminated the Duck Dynasty show because of Phil's religious views.

I would not trust them anymore than I would trust a far right news organization.

BTW, I tend to agree with Oscar and Curt on this issue.

[Mike D]

I think all statues on public grounds should be voted on locally (if state ground) and nationally (if federal ground). Let the majority decide on what stays and what goes and where.

I've never really considered the south as being traitors. As States, they felt the federal government was overreaching. The founders of this country had it right. Strong local and state government. Let the local people decide how they want to be governed. Right now the federal government is huge compared to what it used to be. Not what the founders envisioned but the world has changed a lot in almost 250 years.

Like it or not we are on the verge of another Civil War. Liberal vs Conservative. Democrat vs Republican. The sad part is I think most of us are not far left or far right but we have no choice but to be far left or far right. There isn't a choice for left middle or right middle. No common ground as far as representation.

So if the dems and reps go to war against each other and whichever side wins can call the other side traitors?? Hope I'm on the winning side cause I'm no traitor.

Good points here. I also agree that removal of public monuments should be voted on by the people. If they are on public property and/or paid for with public funds they belong to the people, not the politicians.

As to the Confederacy being traitors, regardless of the good/bad/indifference of slavery, if it was legal at the time and was trying to be outlawed the wrong way by the federal government then the Confederacy was absolutely right to stand up against the government. That’s called federalism and the epitome of what the 10th amendment is about.


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[RLB]

Good points here. I also agree that removal of public monuments should be voted on by the people. If they are on public property and/or paid for with public funds they belong to the people, not the politicians.

The “People” do not vote on federally funded projects, this is why we have representatives and senators....it’s their job. That’s how a “Republic” works.