Your Vote Against Trump is a Vote for...

[Michael]

You have overstated my facts. We do not yet know whether Trump will be worse for our position than Hillary. That's the most foundational element of the dice roll.

I was responding to your question of "could it be worse with Trump?" The descriptors are solely mine.

[Artos]

Although I said I won't vote for Hillary, I have been labelled a Libtard (what a childish name) and an idiot. I have at no time called anyone on here any name. I haven't even said that YOU or anyone else should not vote for him. I have simply said that my conscience will not allow ME to vote for him. Why does that bother you people so much?

Show me in my post where I said it bothers me you aren't voting for him?? I said the opposite!! I don't even know why you think I'm calling you out?? I even stated I may note vote??

what I don't understand is the insistence of people who continue to bash trump to those who are voting for him & posting in such a way that we are the idiots when we have no where else to go at this point. That is all.

Look, some here have liked Trump from the beginning which I do not understand...Carson was my first, Cruz was my 2nd & trump was my last of the 16!! The rest of us are a 'hold our nose' & pray Hillary doesn't get in. We totally get why you don't like trump & are not voting, but what good does it do to tell me how rotten he is when I have only Hillary as my other option this late in the game.

She is so much worse...what am I supposed to do?? I can not vote or pick Trump. What value do I have in telling anyone what a terd trump is & how does it help the situation of our nation if he has the nomination in a two party system?? ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY DO NOT GIVE EXAMPLES TO WHY HILLARY IS THE BETTER POTUS!! Sigh...

[RiverRat1]

ok, we get it. You won't vote for either.

Who would you rather be POTUS, Trump or Hillary?

Neither. Next question?

I just did. I said neither.

That's not an answer. You have to pick one. Why avoid the question?

You do agree that one of those two will be the next POTUS, right? Is there some sort of hope neither will be that I don't see?

[Michael]

My original post was a (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) rebuttal to those who continually espouse the idea that my vote is somehow "wasted" if I don't vote for Trump anymore than it already is in Texas with our electoral college system of choosing a president.

I voiced my opinion that Texas will be a red state. I was also (intentionally) clear to emphasize this November. While I agree that the state as a whole is moving toward the center, it will take more than apathy to shift the state to blue. It will take an intentional, concerted effort on the part of conservatives to vote FOR the Democratic Nominee in order to accomplish it in this cycle. I also clarified in a later post that, in the unlikely (near impossible) event that were to happen, Texas still wouldn't be a deciding factor in the presidential race, as the outcome would have been long decided.

I don't mind having my opinions and beliefs challenged. In fact, I welcome an honest and respectful exchange of ideas and opinions, even (especially) when they differ from my own. However, I also challenge anybody that wishes to engage in a debate to not immediately resort to immature name calling, or compromize your integrity by intentionally misrepresenting my statements or beliefs in an effort to "win" an exchange or malign my opinions or character.

Paul, to borrow a portion of your statement on another thread:

...I feel sorry for you. I can at least have a little hope even though I don't like trump. To hate him on the same (which it appears you do) level as I do hillary, the world must be a sorry place to be. I could not even imagine going into this election without any sort of decent outcome.

I'm just about there, brother. Frankly, I'm embarrassed that these are our choices.

I'm resigned to the undisputable truth that (likely) Hillary or Trump will win the election. I also know that the biggest impact I could have on the presidential election was in the Primary. I did my part. My candidate won the state, but not his party's nomination. I'm disgusted with the GOP and the leadership, and that didn't start with this election cycle. I can no longer control or even have influence on the outcome of November's presidential race, but I can do my extremely small part to send a message to the congress, the president, and both parties.

IMO, the best thing that can happen is that, whoever the nominee is that wins, does so with SIGNIFICANTLY less than 50% of the popular vote, and thus having absolutely no "mandate" before what is hopefully still a republican controlled congress. Continuing my "best case scenario" theme, while I hope the Republicans retain control of both houses, I hope it begins a real "house cleaning" with fresh, conservative leaders taking over in the mid-terms.

Aside from that, forgive me if I choose not to put my "hope" into any of the candidates.

[BoneDigger]

That's not an answer. You have to pick one. Why avoid the question?

You do agree that one of those two will be the next POTUS, right? Is there some sort of hope neither will be that I don't see?

You still just don't get it! I don't have to pick one of those two. I can choose a third party or I can choose to not vote. You can ask me whether I'd rather step in German Shepherd crap or Labrador crap and my answer will be the same. Neither. And, if I can avoid doing so I won't step in either one.

No matter which of these candidates wins and I do acknowledge that one of them will, my conscience will be clear. I do not feel I am throwing away my vote, nor do I feel the need to hold my nose and vote.

The reality is that without the approval of Congress, Clinton can get little done. Even the Senate has to approve the appointment of a SC justice. With Trump in power, there's no dang telling what we will get since party politics will goad many in Congress to vote with him, even for crappy laws. It's a no win situation.

So, again, I chose neither.

[RiverRat1]

You still just don't get it! I don't have to pick one of those two. I can choose a third party or I can choose to not vote. You can ask me whether I'd rather step in German Shepherd crap or Labrador crap and my answer will be the same. Neither. And, if I can avoid doing so I won't step in either one.

No matter which of these candidates wins and I do acknowledge that one of them will, my conscience will be clear. I do not feel I am throwing away my vote, nor do I feel the need to hold my nose and vote.

The reality is that without the approval of Congress, Clinton can get little done. Even the Senate has to approve the appointment of a SC justice. With Trump in power, there's no dang telling what we will get since party politics will goad many in Congress to vote with him, even for crappy laws. It's a no win situation.

So, again, I chose neither.

I didn't ask who you would vote for. I didn't ask who you would like to have as POTUS.

You're the one who refuses to admit that WE will have either Trump or Hillary as POTUS. You can't say neither because one WILL be POTUS

This isn't about dog poop. You can step over poop. You can't avoid the fact one of these two jackwagons will be POTUS.

A better analogy would be you're falling and will for 100% sure land in lab poop or shepherd poop. Which way do you lean?

[Michael]

You're the one who refuses to admit that WE will have either Trump or Hillary as POTUS. You can't say neither because one WILL be POTUS

No matter which of these candidates wins and I do acknowledge that one of them will, my conscience will be clear. I do not feel I am throwing away my vote, nor do I feel the need to hold my nose and vote.

I'm not sure why you insist on belaboring this (other than it's just what you do), or what it will prove or change to arbitrarily pick one over the other.

You didn't ask me, directly, but the only answer I can give is that my real hope is that Hillary is in prison and/or is deemed ineligible for the office. That might make the choice more difficult...or perhaps easier?

[M16]

The reality is that without the approval of Congress, Clinton can get little done.

Seriously? Ever hear of a guy named Obama and executive orders?

[Artos]

Michael,

I am right there with you...heck, I feel sorry for all of us with the hand we been dealt with brother. Look at what it is doing to us who mostly have the same views & hopes for this nation!! Hillary & Trump as the main two choices are not anything I could have possible imagined happening & the facts are it is already ripping apart our unity, which is pretty depressing when in the past we mostly agreed who the enemy of freedoms are.

I don't think I ever personally or stated to anyone that a non vote is a ping for Hillary...especially in Texas, so to apologize to me for not voting is most certainly not necessary. That thread was painful to see when such a smart fellow comes on and starts a thread about how ugly things could be with a Trump presidency when our other choice is way worse than the current admin, and makes no notion of how she will be better on the specific issues, it stings for some reason. Especially from the most important state that will likely dictate the outcome of the election.

Her laundry list tells us she should not even be eligible to run as other folks who have done worse have been pinched / punished legally. The fact she is untouchable & there are no repercussions for her misdeeds frightens me of what else could happen. How do we stand for this & how can anyone continue to tout the negatives of Trump, ignoring this atrocity of a law breaker possibly / likely becoming the next potus??

About half the people in our country do not even care what she has done...they blindly pull the blue lever for whatever reasons. How can they justify their vote with such an evil person?? The two facts she lied about Benghazi getting our boys killed blaming it on a vid & jeopardizing our security with her own server / email & lying to congress?? I really wish I could be a little more indifferent & let it slide like so many others, but I truly feel we are leaving a mess for our kids & grandkids!! Maybe I just need to take a step back & let the rest have at it for a while...I'm tired of having my joy stolen. Boss, it is really, really hard for me to hear people only focus & post on the negatives of Trump & not acknowledge what lurks in the shadows. The trump complaints are similar to what I was stating back when I was fighting to see Carson & Cruz, but that game was lost. I am trying to be consistent on all this & sure I posted back when (anyone but Hillary) numberous times.

Amigo, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you (and the other mods) letting the spirit of free speech flow here on your baby...I know you are 2nd guessing yourself at times with this sub forum, but even as ugly as we have been to each other this election season, I still think the right to share our feelings in an open forum is a precious gift that many do not appreciate. Many countries cannot do this without fear & is likely a right that will also get attacked in the future. I do not like the direction we are headed & again, I feel hillary is way more capable of taking us down this road vs. Trump & I'm just saddened that so many focus on a Trump trail that is not near as scary.

I'll always have your back whatever direction you decide to take...I'm not here for the politics, campfire or classifieds. I enjoy this place because the vast majority of people are solid & loving individuals. I've made lasting friendships you cannot put a value on. I do not do other forms of social media, this is my internet home so to speak. Keep your chin up señor...regardless of the outcome, we at least have our friends to get through the ride together. I think it is going to be ugly no matter who is steering the bus. All I would ask of everyone is to at least consider and note both bus drivers when discussing. To continuously bad mouth one lousy driver, when the other should not have a license due to repeated citations & pile ups is hypocritical & unhelpful to the final destination.

May God have mercy on us & give us the clarity to make the hard decisions & mostly to give us peace on our choices.

[ladrones]

The reality is that without the approval of Congress, Clinton can get little done.

My self proclaimed constitutionalist congressman is always telling me what I want to hear. Turns around and does whatever his establishment brotherhood wants him to do. Nothing that is helpful to his own constituents. Much like Obama, Mrs Bill Clinton will get whatever she wants done.

[Bill M]

The reality is that without the approval of Congress, Clinton can get little done. Even the Senate has to approve the appointment of a SC justice.

Not the congress I've been following. They bloviate and then pretty much give him what he wants. Now if she wins, they will be picking on the poor woman if they don't give her what she wants.

More showboating but then they approve this. Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. So approving a SCJ is just going through the motions.

I wouldn't put much faith in the congress.

[Rubi513]

Even if Texas turned blue for this cycle...we still wouldn't be the swing state.

O.K. Maybe I am totally clueles, but if Texas turned blue I would think Hilliary is a shoo-in.
I thought the reason Texas wasn't considered a swing state is because hisorically we are considered a Republican state.
Maybe I am an "idiot"

[RiverRat1]

I'm not sure why you insist on belaboring this (other than it's just what you do), or what it will prove or change to arbitrarily pick one over the other.

You didn't ask me, directly, but the only answer I can give is that my real hope is that Hillary is in prison and/or is deemed ineligible for the office. That might make the choice more difficult...or perhaps easier?

I can agree as I hope she's in prison also.

But the question was a simple who would you rather see as POTUS. Not who would do better (or less worse). Not who would you vote for. To be honest I probably won't vote at all. I've lost all faith (or any remaining hope) in the entire system. If Hillary can avoid jail and still be POTUS then there's no hope left.

I hate seeing Trump on TV, always hated his shows etc. But Hillary makes me want to vomit and stirs up sheer anger in my soul.

But back to the original question. I just want people to admit that one of these two will be POTUS. Changing the subject by saying "neither" is well.... I better not say.

[grizzman]

I think it's interesting that the most stated reason I see for voting for Trump, on this forum and others, is that "he isn't Hillary". Pretty sad.

[Michael]

O.K. Maybe I am totally clueles, but if Texas turned blue I would think Hilliary is a shoo-in.
I thought the reason Texas wasn't considered a swing state is because hisorically we are considered a Republican state.
Maybe I am an "idiot"

If Texas turns blue, Hillary IS a shoe-in. My point is that if that happens, Hillary already wins in a landslide. Texas wouldn't be the deciding electoral votes.