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    #16
    I’ll admit, I grew up believing that the government was better being “small” but generally had the best interest of America at heart and that there were a few corrupt individuals.

    i see that was a rosy perception and they they only care about their own interests, increasingly at the expense of the American people.

    At 23, I simply couldn’t fathom that we would have any hand in 9/11. Maybe that was partly due to the fact that I had close friends who were already reservists expecting to be called up, or joining the military and the fact that 3,000+ Americans had been slaughtered. In retrospect, 20 years later, I don’t know what role our intelligence apparatus had in the planning & execution, but I do believe they had a role. I also believe the subsequent Patriot Act was the most detrimental piece of legislation in our lifetime and likely US history.

    I do believe America will fall in my lifetime but I’m not sure what that looks like. It could be as docile as Europe and Australia, but still existing in a muted role. Or it could be a complete demise.

    what’s scary is America is still a shining city on a hill, imagine how awful a different the world will be when she finally topples

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      #17
      The democrats caught Bush with his pants down on the patriot act no doubt. Imagine the slobbering they did when that passed.

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        #18
        Originally posted by muzzlebrake View Post
        The democrats caught Bush with his pants down on the patriot act no doubt. Imagine the slobbering they did when that passed.
        Not to start an argument, but the patriot act was 100 percent Republican and Bush’s pants weren’t down. Only 3 Republican no voted it in the House and no nays in the Senate. 67 Democratic congressman dissented and 1 Senator. Republicans and Democrats are 2 sides of the same coin.

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          #19
          Originally posted by muzzlebrake View Post
          The democrats caught Bush with his pants down on the patriot act no doubt. Imagine the slobbering they did when that passed.
          They were attempting to spy on us way before that with a computer program called PROMIS.
          People were murdered for getting to close. Watch this documentary. I was in my late teens and clueless when this took place.

          The story of a journalist’s mysterious death while investigating a shadowy conspiracy has become the subject of a twisty new series



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            #20
            I almost feel like it is easier to dig your heels in on your views now than it was before. With all the info at our fingertips a person can easily search for, and find, information to back up how they already feel.

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              #21
              Originally posted by PondPopper View Post

              They were attempting to spy on us way before that with a computer program called PROMIS.
              People were murdered for getting to close. Watch this documentary. I was in my late teens and clueless when this took place.

              The story of a journalist’s mysterious death while investigating a shadowy conspiracy has become the subject of a twisty new series


              have you watched “The Octopus “ on Netflix? Really makes you wonder….

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                #22
                Originally posted by muzzlebrake View Post
                The democrats caught Bush with his pants down on the patriot act no doubt. Imagine the slobbering they did when that passed.
                No, the former CIA Director, 41st Prez and Georgie Porgies’ dad helped push that through and was likely an unrealized goal of his from his CIA days.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Playa View Post

                  have you watched “The Octopus “ on Netflix? Really makes you wonder….
                  Yes

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Playa View Post

                    No, the former CIA Director, 41st Prez and Georgie Porgies’ dad helped push that through and was likely an unrealized goal of his from his CIA days.
                    Word is Barry Hussein is also CIA.
                    If we only knew 1/4th of what was really going on!!!!!

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                      #25
                      I use to think elections were legit. F j b

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                        #26
                        You probably used to think the earth was round too.

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                          #27
                          Yep. Used to think republicans and conservatives were for freedom. I now realize both parties, however you want to name them, are about control, apart from a VERY select few (Rand Paul for example).

                          I also realized a majority of people are cool with that status quo, and do zero self reflecting and introspective analysis of their decisions, and the results. I always knew some people were like this, I just didn't realize how **** many there were.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
                            Yep. Used to think republicans and conservatives were for freedom. I now realize both parties, however you want to name them, are about control, apart from a VERY select few (Rand Paul for example).

                            I also realized a majority of people are cool with that status quo, and do zero self reflecting and introspective analysis of their decisions, and the results. I always knew some people were like this, I just didn't realize how **** many there were.
                            Many of us have subscribed to the idea that the left wing and right wing are part of the same bird.

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