Synod on Synodality

[Death from Above]

I am not sure I can add anything worthwhile to this conversation. So I will just ramble. I grew up Catholic and went to a catholic school. As soon as I was of age and on my own I didn't step foot in a church unless it was a wedding or a funeral. Fast forward to a little over a year ago me, my wife and kids walked into a non-denominational church that was near our house we had drove past for 7 years. Mainly what caught our attention is it had a fishing pond and small animal farm in the front of it and we both had never been into a non-catholic church. We were so openly welcomed and greeted the moment we stepped foot inside. The gentleman at the door bought us some coffee from the coffee bar (I had never seen that in a church before), we took us around the whole campus and then offered to buy us lunch. The campus had games for my kids to play, no one was dressed in suits and ties, very casual come as you are... it was just absolutely amazing. They had a band and played music live during the sermon (we had never experienced that before). Fast forward to the present day. We all look forward to going to church every Sunday. Especially my kids. I now volunteer and maintain that very fishing pond I drove past for 7 years. There are all walks of folks at our new church....even gay people. I have nothing against the catholic church I just believe we will continue to see people like myself look for alternatives in this modern day.

probably will get “flamed” for this…but if your current church is embracing people that are actively participating in a gay lifestyle…you need to find a new one.

even if the coffee and fishing is good.

[WItoTX]

I don't believe he said they "embraced" them. However, pushing them away is not the correct answer. When someone is on the wrong path, you lead them to the right one. You bring them closer. Build a relationship. Ask earnest questions. Trust (have faith) they will arrive and recognize the error of their ways and be moved to correct them. What's that old parable about the splinter in someone else's eye and the log on our own eyes?

Also, fantastic pun haha

[Man]

probably will get “flamed” for this…but if your current church is embracing people that are actively participating in a gay lifestyle…you need to find a new one.

even if the coffee and fishing is good.

I'm not gonna flame you. I'm just going to disagree. I am glad I found a church that welcomes all types of folks. No hatred based on race, age, sexuality etc.

[4wheels]

[QUOTE=donpablo;n26638642]

This is exactly what Jesus was criticized for, his inclusivity. He was ostracized for reaching out to the people who needed God the most, the sinners. The Pope is undeniably right that the church's job is to reach out and offer salvation to all. So if the people from these groups feel unwelcome, it would be wise to figure out a way to reach out to these groups. This is a hard task as they are charged to do so without changing the moral stance that the Pope has repeatedly affirmed, that homosexual intercourse is forbidden. I just pointed out the other day to my wife and daughter that both the liberal and conservative media were taking liberties to try and make it seem that the Pope was saying more than he actually is. I'm going to agree with 4wheels and say that any time you try and turn a Christian away from his religion/church, you are doing the devil's work. Sure, there are some churches who've gone 180 from Christ's teachings but wouldn't it be their duty to try and fix their church rather than allow it to continue corrupting the Word?

You know what - you're right about that. The church should be full of sinners. And being inclusive is one of the many things Jesus was criticized for.

[4wheels]

Watched the Chosen on Netflix just a little bit ago. Jesus talked about not needing big sermons and saying the right words to pray to God. It's what is in your heart that counts.

[Death from Above]

I don't believe he said they "embraced" them. However, pushing them away is not the correct answer. When someone is on the wrong path, you lead them to the right one. You bring them closer. Build a relationship. Ask earnest questions. Trust (have faith) they will arrive and recognize the error of their ways and be moved to correct them. What's that old parable about the splinter in someone else's eye and the log on our own eyes?

Also, fantastic pun haha

church is not for the unredeemed according to scripture. and if a person claims to be a Christian, but celebrates a testimony of unrighteousness, we are not to fellowship with them.

not my take but scriptures.

i think many churches never addressed and condemned cohabitation and the "sowing of wild oats"...failing to do so makes addressing any sexual sin look like hypocrisy.

no desire to be argumentative and really enjoy the content that 4wheels is discussing. maybe the website will hold up as discussion flows lol

[WItoTX]

church is not for the unredeemed according to scripture. and if a person claims to be a Christian, but celebrates a testimony of unrighteousness, we are not to fellowship with them.

not my take but scriptures.

i think many churches never addressed and condemned cohabitation and the "sowing of wild oats"...failing to do so makes addressing any sexual sin look like hypocrisy.

no desire to be argumentative and really enjoy the content that 4wheels is discussing. maybe the website will hold up as discussion flows lol

Agreed, it's definitely a touchy subject, and we are one meltdown away from this thread poofing!

Question for you. "According to scripture" has already been the position of both sides in this thread (Post #9, my posts, and your posts). So how does one discern when to pull sinners into the church, vs cast them out? We see the seemingly contrarian position of Jesus in the Temple of God, vs Jesus dining with prostitutes and tax collectors and telling the Pharisees that the prostitutes and tax collectors will enter the kingdom of heaven before they do.

There is a line there. And I think God gave us the ability to reason where that line is. That doesn't mean celebrate the sinful act. Because we all sin, and we should all be thrown from the Church if its black and white (IMO).

Again, appreciate the discussion, and definitely not being critical of anyone else opinion on something so contentious.

[Death from Above]

Agreed, it's definitely a touchy subject, and we are one meltdown away from this thread poofing!

Question for you. "According to scripture" has already been the position of both sides in this thread (Post #9, my posts, and your posts). So how does one discern when to pull sinners into the church, vs cast them out? We see the seemingly contrarian position of Jesus in the Temple of God, vs Jesus dining with prostitutes and tax collectors and telling the Pharisees that the prostitutes and tax collectors will enter the kingdom of heaven before they do.

There is a line there. And I think God gave us the ability to reason where that line is. That doesn't mean celebrate the sinful act. Because we all sin, and we should all be thrown from the Church if its black and white (IMO).

Again, appreciate the discussion, and definitely not being critical of anyone else opinion on something so contentious.

very gracious in your response...thank you

for me the answer to your question lies in repentance. i say that because we are all sinners. we will continue to stumble and fall short in the journey of life but our testimony is to be one of repentance and acknowledging what God says about the area that we fall in.

for instance, a young couple at church chose to move in together and live as husbands and wife. i would not "hate" on them but they would know that what they are doing is sinful and that the privileges of church fellowship are not open to them as long as they reject the teachings of Jesus on marriage and fornication. I would not officiate communion for them or a marriage as long as they were living in that type of situation.

I show them love by holding up the Word as the standard and encouraging them to strive for it.

Biblical love does not look like worldly acceptance...and it is a touchy task inside of the church in todays society.

i will be eternally thankful for the people that loved me enough to hold me accountable in my past rebellious spirt.

Gotta note: this would only happen with people that I know and love...that are in my tribe so to speak. No way I stand on a street corner and try to convince the world...them folks aint in my purview lol

[100%TtId]

….I would not officiate communion for them or a marriage as long as they were living in that type of situation.

I show them love by holding up the Word as the standard and encouraging them to strive for it.

But if they are trying to get married to correct their sin, you would deny them their ability to do so?

[Man]

Me and my wife have lived together for 10 years year now and have 2 beautiful kids and we are not married. Man I think thats 4 sins just right there.

[Death from Above]

You cannot correct sin. You repent of it.

biblical repentance is the turning from unrighteousness.

Jesus taught us to repent of our sin. Not walk arrogantly in it.

So the real question for everyone is what does biblical repentance look like?

For me, it means I can’t have a testimony of unrepentant sin. I fall short daily, and I get on my knees, and I plead the grace of Jesus over my sin. I.

repentance is visible it’s what builds our testimony

[WItoTX]

very gracious in your response...thank you

for me the answer to your question lies in repentance. i say that because we are all sinners. we will continue to stumble and fall short in the journey of life but our testimony is to be one of repentance and acknowledging what God says about the area that we fall in.

for instance, a young couple at church chose to move in together and live as husbands and wife. i would not "hate" on them but they would know that what they are doing is sinful and that the privileges of church fellowship are not open to them as long as they reject the teachings of Jesus on marriage and fornication. I would not officiate communion for them or a marriage as long as they were living in that type of situation.

I show them love by holding up the Word as the standard and encouraging them to strive for it.

Biblical love does not look like worldly acceptance...and it is a touchy task inside of the church in todays society.

i will be eternally thankful for the people that loved me enough to hold me accountable in my past rebellious spirt.

Gotta note: this would only happen with people that I know and love...that are in my tribe so to speak. No way I stand on a street corner and try to convince the world...them folks aint in my purview lol

You know, I think we are basically in agreement actually. You just explained your position more eloquently than me.

There will be the "what if" crowd, and we can play the what if game all day long. I think if folks honestly look at their circumstances, they know where they fall on that line. Right and wrong is very simple and clear. Doesn't make it easy to be on the right side of that line(I certainly end up on the wrong side daily). Simple, not easy.

Appreciate the response.

[WItoTX]

Me and my wife have lived together for 10 years year now and have 2 beautiful kids and we are not married. Man I think thats 4 sins just right there.

Help me understand. You called her your wife, but that you are not married. What does that mean?

[SaltwaterSlick]

To me the two verses below are maybe the scariest in all the Bible. The church (We) can get so wrapped up with rules and regulations and fretting over “feelings” and “prideful things” that we may blow right past that narrow gate and never see it and not realize we are heading full throttle down the broad way. Living in open rebellion toward God without repentance is probably a good indicator of where one may be.
We are clearly told to go out and make disciples by delivering the Gospel to the lost, but (and it is a big but), if the Gospel is rejected, we are told to “leave that place and shake the dust off our sandals”…
We are to love people but despise sin and not tolerate it in our presence. We are given clear instructions how to address unrepentant sin within the Christian brotherhood. Bottom line is, after the 3rd or 4th effort to rebuke the sin in our brother’s life fails to bring repentance, we are to cast them out and not have further fellowship with that person.
What’s maybe worse, if we see our brother sin and do not address it, his sun may fall on us as being responsible.

I’ve lost more than a few hours of sleep wrestling with that!!

Mat 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Mat 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[Pstraw]

That's about as clear as it gets there, Charlie. Far too many people don't want to believe that the choice is right or wrong, truth or lie. They want to have exceptions and excuses.
They don't want to accept that there is no grey area. No in between or middle of the road. They continue to believe Satan's lie from the garden..." did God really say...?"
The scriptures are clear on exactly what God says. Everyone has the choice about whether to 'Believe' or reject the invitation.

I want to be clear that I am not a perfect person and am still fighting daily. However, I do trust God's Word in that "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness".