Let's talk about arrows...

[TX_Kevin]

Go ahead and get into the velocity and the weight issues, and how that KE is 1/2*M*V squared.

I am currently shooting Axis N-Fused 340s and I like them. I think they weigh in about 415 grains. I was shooting them in the 290 fps range with my DXT before I sold it, and will be shooting them out of my XLR8 at 63 lbs.

I understand the general rule about the 5 grains per pound. I wonder who came up with that, and how long ago, and if adding a string stopper changes that at all since it does fairly significantly change the dynamics?

Victory has some really light arrows that I've read some good things about, and their HV arrows are really light. 300s are in at 6.9 gpi. HCA Speed Pros are even lighter. Try 5.5 gpi for the light ones, and 6.2 for their heavier arrows. I started realizing tonight that these things are lighter than the general rule allows!

At 28 1/2" with a 100 grain head, my arrow would come in at 297 grains for the Victory HV, and at 257 grains for the HCA Speed Pros. Wow.

Throw those behind a Monster XLR8 and it might be interesting to see, or they might blow up the bow and me with it.

I can't even imagine how flat an XLR8 might shoot with those Speed Pros.

Ok, so anyone done it?

Let me grab my pop corn and let the opinions flow. No one's gonna hurt my feelers, and I bet there's a few others out there who'd like to read along.

[Fishndude]

Well...........all I can say is...........HUH???

Seriously!! I would be skeered!!

[TX_Kevin]

Well...........all I can say is...........HUH???

Seriously!! I would be skeered!!

Wow! You enlighted us! Just kidding. Dang, what does a guy have to do to get a good "archery" related topic kicked off around here?

[Smart]

Wow! You enlighted us! Just kidding. Dang, what does a guy have to do to get a good "archery" related topic kicked off around here?

Start it at a respectable time of the day.....ain't nothing but hoodrats and hoodlums out this time of night...

[TX_Kevin]

Start it at a respectable time of the day.....ain't nothingn but hoodrats and hoodlums out this time of night...

Hey, I resent that! You left out old farts.

[Smart]

You left out old farts.

I didn't want to offend anybody like in the other thread.

[MountainMan]

I'll jump in! Seems to me that shootin a lighter arrow would work, but you might suffer some umph (yes that's technical) behind the arrow when huntin. As we all know, your arrows penetration is caused by the weight and KE behind it, not just speed. At the speeds that your XLR8 is goin to spit them out at, you might have to shorten them up a bit to stiffen them and get them to a point where they won't bounce off or just stop dead halfway through the critter.

On the flip side of the coin, you can use those arrows and then get a weight tube to get that weight down to that magic number.

If you do decide to give the light arrows a go, make sure to video it. I'd like to see how flat they shoot.

[Fishndude]

Smart nailed it. Its all about timing. Or, you could start a thread with the "BBB" comment made on another thread here tonight.

I think its a great topic. Obviously, I'm clueless but most here are not!!

[TX_Kevin]

According to a lot of the data you shouldn't be able to kill deer with a 22-250 either, but there's sure been a lot of them killed with one.

I think my argument about the momentum thing is that velocity is more important than is weight when considering it mathematically since mass is divided by two, and veloctity is doubled.

Maybe we need to do like myth busters and build a bunch of buckets full of ballistic gel and do penetration tests... Anyone want to fund it?

[Mike Javi Cooper]

According to a lot of the data you shouldn't be able to kill deer with a 22-250 either, but there's sure been a lot of them killed with one.

I think my argument about the momentum thing is that velocity is more important than is weight when considering it mathematically since mass is divided by two, and veloctity is doubled.

Maybe we need to do like myth busters and build a bunch of buckets full of ballistic gel and do penetration tests... Anyone want to fund it?

Already been done several times..

On whitetails, especially the tiny ones we got in Texas and at most people's self-imposed limited range of 30 yards and under..... it don't really matter how light the arrow is.

And the flat shooting thing is kind of a joke, if you really test the difference at 40 yards and in on speed differentials of 30 - 40 fps.... most folks groups will encompass the difference..

I got my own ideas of why I shoot a heavier arrow but they really don't matter to anyone but me..

[HogHunter34]

According to a lot of the data you shouldn't be able to kill deer with a 22-250 either, but there's sure been a lot of them killed with one.

I think my argument about the momentum thing is that velocity is more important than is weight when considering it mathematically since mass is divided by two, and veloctity is doubled.

Maybe we need to do like myth busters and build a bunch of buckets full of ballistic gel and do penetration tests... Anyone want to fund it?

Actually...
momentum = mass x velocity
kinetic energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity (squared).

KE is most influenced by velocity considering it is a squared term. In other words for every x unit in mass increased KE changes by x. However, for every x unit of velocity change KE is effected by the square of that term.

[TomB]

Already been done several times..

On whitetails, especially the tiny ones we got in Texas and at most people's self-imposed limited range of 30 yards and under..... it don't really matter how light the arrow is.

And the flat shooting thing is kind of a joke, if you really test the difference at 40 yards and in on speed differentials of 30 - 40 fps.... most folks groups will encompass the difference..

I got my own ideas of why I shoot a heavier arrow but they really don't matter to anyone but me..

I agree with Javi, and I will tell folks the reason I shoot a heavier arrow, my bow is quieter. When I can shoot 3 pigs at one sitting and none have any idea where the arrows are coming from, that is a good thing. Not worrying about a whitetail jumping the string works in my favor. I think a bow and arrow combination can be too ugly, too slow, but it can't be too quiet. Moreover, I try to keep my speed to about 280 fps because I am lazy. I don't want to go through all the trouble of fine tuning broadheads at 320 fps.

[TomB]

Actually...
momentum = mass x velocity
kinetic energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity (squared).

KE is most influenced by velocity considering it is a squared term. In other words for every x unit in mass increased KE changes by x. However, for every x unit of velocity change KE is effected by the square of that term.

One thing about the KE formula. Mass and velocity are not independent variables. In other words, I can't increase velocity and keep arrow mass the same (unless I change something on the bow, i.e. draw weight.) I have helped lots of kids with the science fair experiment of "What improves KE the most, a lighter faster arrow, or a heavy slower arrow?" Answer: the heavier arrow wins the KE battle. However the trade off is more room for error at longer distances (but as Javi says at 20 yards over feeders, it ain't that much.)

[TX_Kevin]

I am not trying to say that we all need to toss our heavier arrows and move to the lighter faster arrows. Mine are pretty middle of the road and I like them. So long as they fly well with my bow I intend to continue to use them.

So many people get caught up on penetration and want the really heavy arrows, and then others get bashed when they want to speed things up. I am simply saying that speeding things up is not necessarily a bad thing, and it's not nearly as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

On the quietness of a bow, I'd rather have a faster quiet bow than a slower quiet bow. Both can easily be achieved today. But, go back and read some of Tuthdoc's threads about bow noise. He said it was overrated. Deer didn't seem to care in his opinion. I tend to believe that guy more than myself on matters such as these.

Now Tom, here's something for you to think about: Is the notion that mass and velocity are not independant variables based on outdated information? Does it include a string suppressor, and the super stiff but light arrows of today?

I think some of these questions are very valid. 5 grains per pound - where did that come from? Who decided that?

[Traildust]

Hey, If you shoot soome of those Speed Pro's outta that new bow, be sure an video it