Trick question

[Artos]

Brilliant!!!


OK, now we got this conveyor belt that is miles & miles & miles long carrying our jet wheels up resting on her belly backwards at whatever speed you envision...what happens when full thrust is applied??

Does the speed of the conveyor matter??

[CabezaBlanca]

This thread is proof that some people can’t change the spark plug in their lawnmower.

[JackRyan]

OMG this is so embarrassing please lock this thread. There is no trick ok people. A treadmill has 0 affect on an airplane. It flys no problem like it does every day

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Your detailed explanation of physics have been riveting. "OMG" [emoji23]

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[JackRyan]

Cuz they're super handy for landing...either on a runway or a conveyor. Which begs the question. If this magic conveyor is gonna match wheel speed-what happens when it lands? ...cuz the wheels won't be turning when it lands!

You didn't answer the question. If the wheels or the conveyor belt don't have any effect on the plane, why not take them off and see how well the takeoff goes?

The wheels are required so that the thrust generated by the jet engines acting against the body of the plane can begin to move the plane forward by rolling on the wheels propelling the plane forward on the ground until it generates enough speed and lift to overcome the force of gravity exerted on the plane. But if the ground beneath the wheels is instantly matching the speed of wheels in the opposite direction then the plane never moves forward. That is what is stipulated in the question.

Reading comprehension really is a lost art.

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[rolylane6]

But if the ground beneath the wheels is instantly matching the speed of wheels in the opposite direction then the plane never moves forward.



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I've asked this question already and never got an answer but since you bring it up I'll ask again. If the plane never moves forward what makes the wheels or conveyor turn at all. You're saying the plane doesn't move so the wheels can't turn. So the engines are at full thrust and the plane never moves and the wheels are not turning. Where does all the energy and force generated from the thrust go?


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[JustinJ]

Trick question

In any sort of realistic test, the plane would take off. The speed of the wheels has absolutely zero to do with the airspeed of the plane. The airspeed of the plane has everything to do with when it will fly.

But the question is a paradox because the speed of the wheels and the treadmill would be infinite and the speed would increase forever, which is obviously impossible.

It’s no different than any other paradox. There is no real answer because the parameters aren’t possible. But the real answer in any realistic, non paradoxical question is, the plane would take off. The situation simply cannot exist.

It’s no different than the light switch paradox (Thompson’s lamp). When dealing in infinites of this nature, the solution cannot be solved for. It is a supertask.

[Tom]

You didn't answer the question. If the wheels or the conveyor belt don't have any effect on the plane, why not take them off and see how well the takeoff goes?

The wheels are required so that the thrust generated by the jet engines acting against the body of the plane can begin to move the plane forward by rolling on the wheels propelling the plane forward on the ground until it generates enough speed and lift to overcome the force of gravity exerted on the plane. But if the ground beneath the wheels is instantly matching the speed of wheels in the opposite direction then the plane never moves forward. That is what is stipulated in the question.

Reading comprehension really is a lost art.

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everyone looks at things from a different perspective and if you are thinking about it and are open to different facts on the situation then that is good.

I would say that beyond a shadow of a doubt if the technology existed to match a conveyor belt to the speed of the tires in a reverse direction that would certainly create some work for the wheels and the conveyor belt.

Having stated that fact, it does not change the reality that the thrust of the engines is not acting upon the runway. The wheels are just a tool to reduce the friction of the ground on the body of the aircraft as it moves. the thrust of the engines is interacting with the air behind the engines. it is pushing at 10's of thousands of pounds of force. Not upon the wheels or ground but upon the air behind the engines. the wheels do not matter. the body of the plane will move relative to the air around it. without question.

if the question was if the air around the plane would move at an equal speed and direction as the thrust then the plane would go nowhere and the wheels would not move either.

[JackRyan]

I've asked this question already and never got an answer but since you bring it up I'll ask again. If the plane never moves forward what makes the wheels or conveyor turn at all. You're saying the plane doesn't move so the wheels can't turn. So the engines are at full thrust and the plane never moves and the wheels are not turning. Where does all the energy and force generated from the thrust go?


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Have you ever run on a treadmill? Are you moving when you do? Are your feet moving?? The wheels are spinning, so is the conveyor belt. But the plane is not moving forward.

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[Duckologist]

You didn't answer the question. If the wheels or the conveyor belt don't have any effect on the plane, why not take them off and see how well the takeoff goes?

The wheels are required so that the thrust generated by the jet engines acting against the body of the plane can begin to move the plane forward by rolling on the wheels propelling the plane forward on the ground until it generates enough speed and lift to overcome the force of gravity exerted on the plane. But if the ground beneath the wheels is instantly matching the speed of wheels in the opposite direction then the plane never moves forward. That is what is stipulated in the question.

Reading comprehension really is a lost art.

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Unbelievable


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[Duckologist]

Have you ever run on a treadmill? Are you moving when you do? Are your feet moving?? The wheels are spinning, so is the conveyor belt. But the plane is not moving forward.

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You should just stop. An airplane is not feet, car wheels or bike wheels. You are falling for the "trick" in trick question. You can take the wheels off an airplane, set it on its belly, apply thrust from the engines and it will begin to move and scrape across the ground. Or how bout this, while running on that treadmill what would happen to you if you kicked on that jet pack you're wearing? You think you would fly off that treadmill?

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[rolylane6]

Have you ever run on a treadmill? Are you moving when you do? Are your feet moving?? The wheels are spinning, so is the conveyor belt. But the plane is not moving forward.

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My feet are the propulsion in your scenario. The wheels are not the propulsion in the planes scenario. The engines will push those wheels and plane forward. The wheels and conveyor can turn in opposite directions all they want. The engines will move that plane forward regardless. The friction of the wheels against the conveyor will not prevent it. The wheels would turn and slide at the same time.

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[rolylane6]

In any sort of realistic test, the plane would take off. The speed of the wheels has absolutely zero to do with the airspeed of the plane. The airspeed of the plane has everything to do with when it will fly.

But the question is a paradox because the speed of the wheels and the treadmill would be infinite and the speed would increase forever, which is obviously impossible.

It’s no different than any other paradox. There is no real answer because the parameters aren’t possible. But the real answer in any realistic, non paradoxical question is, the plane would take off. The situation simply cannot exist.

It’s no different than the light switch paradox (Thompson’s lamp). When dealing in infinites of this nature, the solution cannot be solved for. It is a supertask.

I'll state this again.
The wheels are not the propulsion for the plane. The engines will push those wheels and plane forward. The wheels and conveyor can turn in opposite directions all they want. The engines will move that plane forward regardless. The friction of the wheels against the conveyor will not prevent it. The wheels would turn and slide at the same time.

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[LivinADream]

Someone mentioned the skateboard on the treadmill earlier, let's get back to that one.
If you're on a skateboard on a treadmill, moving however fast you want it to be going, wheel speed and treadmill speed matched, and someone who is standing on the ground, (not on the treadmill with you) places their hand on your back and slowly starts applying pressure, (thrust) will you begin to move forward? Of course you will, no matter how much you speed up the treadmill, you will move forward. This happens because the "thrust" has nothing to do with the wheel or treadmill speed.

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[LivinADream]

This thread has been comical.

Yes it will fly.

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No less comical 3 days later.

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[Duckologist]

No less comical 3 days later.

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Its gettin more sad and depressing when you realize these folks prolly vote

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