Abandoned children in Houston apartment

[tvc184]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I know lots of people at that office that pour their souls into their work. They are some of the most intelligent and talented folks I know. They could easily leave the office and make double to triple their salaries with much less stress. They stay because they value doing the right thing and advocating for victims.

It is just like police officers. You might not like the chief or sheriff and his/her politics and policies. The vast majority of the officers are out there doing the right thing no matter what the man/woman at the top is doing. More than likely the prosecutors are doing the same thing.

[Quackerbox]

Aaaannnnd....both in custody.

Well what do ya know.......it worked out

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[Hunting4fun]

I bet the "mother" was getting food stamps, welfare for all the kids and she didn't want to lose money for the one kid who died. So just shoved him in a closet so the crack money would still flow in.

[A&M 90]

That would make it Capital Murder (victim less than 10) and death penalty eligible, assuming someone 18 years or older committed the crime.

I don't know the evidence or anything about the case, but it would not surprise me if the charge was injury to a child. It can be charged as a 1st degree felony and the evidence may lend itself to a more solid prosecution. I have no doubt the prosecutors handling the case have exhaustively considered every charging possibility.

[tvc184]

Off topic but lets get some Tritium sights on that piece already \

On topic, to make this a learning experience can you after the fact teach us common folk not in the murder game the strategy behind it all once the arrest are made? If that is allowed obviously, dont want any breach of trust going on with the department and all.

I can give you some tidbits generally speaking, especially not being burdened by working in Harris County.

First and foremost, you must have probable cause. Merely finding a dead body is not probable cause of almost anything except the person is no longer living. Did the person die of natural causes? Accident? Homicide? Suicide?

Even in the case of a child such as this, there is a difference between murdering the child and the child dying because of some kind of negligence or accident.

How did the person die (we now have a ruling of homicide from the autopsy but that was not originally available I don’t think), who was responsible for the care and custody of the person such as in the case of a child or elderly invalid and that might be different than someone who caused the death, etc. Even though the child might have had parents or legal guardians, were they responsible at that time? Maybe the parents had allowed the children to stay with a relative. You don’t need a court order to let someone take care of your children.

Then there is the potential for a confession or statements by witnesses or anyone that might be accused. Merely stating, I did it, it’s not a valid confession. A person confessing to a crime must give some corroboration as to the validity of the statement by state law. This is also true for a testimony against a codefendant or conspirator.

Again not knowing about Harris County, any person can voluntarily come in and give any statement when they are not in custody and it is not coerced. Once a person is arrested or believes he is going to be arrested and not free to leave, he must be given the Miranda warning and that might end the questioning. A person always has the right to an attorney in any situation but you don’t almost have to beg them not to talk as you do under Miranda. I have taken a statement from someone involved in a homicide after the fact without giving the person any rights under Miranda (and Texas Miranda is more strict than the United States Supreme Court version which most states probably go by) and our district attorney accepted it because he drove to the police station in his own car, he signed a statement saying that he voluntarily gave it and he was not in custody and I allowed him to drive away in his own car. This guy got rid of the murder weapon after the fact and decided to tell me his side of the story but he was kind of flighty and nervous. You can certainly give someone Miranda while they are not in custody but I was scared if I gave this guy Miranda after telling him he was not in custody, he would think I was lying to him and shut up. So I just let him put his story on paper, sign it and walk out.

There are more considerations in each investigation but it’s not like running out and putting handcuffs on someone and calling it a day. I know that when people see a horrific crime like this and the police talk to a suspect, the citizens want handcuffs on the suspect at that moment. In many cases the officers, deputies, etc. might be able to do so legally but that might not be the best thing for the ultimate prosecution. It would be terrible to get an instant gratification from an arrest only to lose the case in court on what people like to call technicalities or the loss of evidence due to rushing into the case. Some people might take this kind of situation as if the police do not care.

I can guarantee that the officers who witnessed this crime scene and the detectives who both had to go to the crime scene and investigate it later, want nothing more than these people in jail. They just want to get it right. This crime scene is probably a year old and there is no point in rushing at this time.

EDIT: And the prosecutors are just as passionate as the officers about seeing these disgusting people in jail and not losing the case.

[tvc184]

Well what do ya know.......it worked out

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

First time for everything, right??

[doug]

Aaaannnnd....both in custody.

Amazing!!! Who would have thought it!

[Quackerbox]

I can give you some tidbits generally speaking, especially not being burdened by working in Harris County.



First and foremost, you must have probable cause. Merely finding a dead body is not probable cause of almost anything except the person is no longer living. Did the person die of natural causes? Accident? Homicide? Suicide?



Even in the case of a child such as this, there is a difference between murdering the child and the child dying because of some kind of negligence or accident.



How did the person die (we now have a ruling of homicide from the autopsy but that was not originally available I don’t think), who was responsible for the care and custody of the person such as in the case of a child or elderly invalid and that might be different than someone who caused the death, etc. Even though the child might have had parents or legal guardians, were they responsible at that time? Maybe the parents had allowed the children to stay with a relative. You don’t need a court order to let someone take care of your children.



Then there is the potential for a confession or statements by witnesses or anyone that might be accused. Merely stating, I did it, it’s not a valid confession. A person confessing to a crime must give some corroboration as to the validity of the statement by state law. This is also true for a testimony against a codefendant or conspirator.



Again not knowing about Harris County, any person can voluntarily come in and give any statement when they are not in custody and it is not coerced. Once a person is arrested or believes he is going to be arrested and not free to leave, he must be given the Miranda warning and that might end the questioning. A person always has the right to an attorney in any situation but you don’t almost have to beg them not to talk as you do under Miranda. I have taken a statement from someone involved in a homicide after the fact without giving the person any rights under Miranda (and Texas Miranda is more strict than the United States Supreme Court version which most states probably go by) and our district attorney accepted it because he drove to the police station in his own car, he signed a statement saying that he voluntarily gave it and he was not in custody and I allowed him to drive away in his own car. This guy got rid of the murder weapon after the fact and decided to tell me his side of the story but he was kind of flighty and nervous. You can certainly give someone Miranda while they are not in custody but I was scared if I gave this guy Miranda after telling him he was not in custody, he would think I was lying to him and shut up. So I just let him put his story on paper, sign it and walk out.



There are more considerations in each investigation but it’s not like running out and putting handcuffs on someone and calling it a day. I know that when people see a horrific crime like this and the police talk to a suspect, the citizens want handcuffs are they suspect at that moment. In many cases the officers, deputies, etc. might be able to do so legally but that might not be the best thing for the ultimate prosecution. It would be terrible to get an instant gratification from an arrest only to lose the case in court on what people like to call technicalities Are the loss of evidence do to rushing into the case. Some people might take this kind of situation as if the police do not care.



I can guarantee that the officers who witnessed this crime scene and the detectives who both had to go to the crime scene and investigate it later, want nothing more than these people in jail. They just want to get it right. This crime scene is probably a year old and there is no point in rushing at this time.

Pretty much nail on the head with a big hammer.

Thank you sir!

And sometimes the burden isn't so bad. When you close cases like this and you know it's solid. It makes you happy

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[A&M 90]

I can give you some tidbits generally speaking, especially not being burdened by working in Harris County.

First and foremost, you must have probable cause. Merely finding a dead body is not probable cause of almost anything except the person is no longer living. Did the person die of natural causes? Accident? Homicide? Suicide?

Even in the case of a child such as this, there is a difference between murdering the child and the child dying because of some kind of negligence or accident.

How did the person die (we now have a ruling of homicide from the autopsy but that was not originally available I don’t think), who was responsible for the care and custody of the person such as in the case of a child or elderly invalid and that might be different than someone who caused the death, etc. Even though the child might have had parents or legal guardians, were they responsible at that time? Maybe the parents had allowed the children to stay with a relative. You don’t need a court order to let someone take care of your children.

Then there is the potential for a confession or statements by witnesses or anyone that might be accused. Merely stating, I did it, it’s not a valid confession. A person confessing to a crime must give some corroboration as to the validity of the statement by state law. This is also true for a testimony against a codefendant or conspirator.

Again not knowing about Harris County, any person can voluntarily come in and give any statement when they are not in custody and it is not coerced. Once a person is arrested or believes he is going to be arrested and not free to leave, he must be given the Miranda warning and that might end the questioning. A person always has the right to an attorney in any situation but you don’t almost have to beg them not to talk as you do under Miranda. I have taken a statement from someone involved in a homicide after the fact without giving the person any rights under Miranda (and Texas Miranda is more strict than the United States Supreme Court version which most states probably go by) and our district attorney accepted it because he drove to the police station in his own car, he signed a statement saying that he voluntarily gave it and he was not in custody and I allowed him to drive away in his own car. This guy got rid of the murder weapon after the fact and decided to tell me his side of the story but he was kind of flighty and nervous. You can certainly give someone Miranda while they are not in custody but I was scared if I gave this guy Miranda after telling him he was not in custody, he would think I was lying to him and shut up. So I just let him put his story on paper, sign it and walk out.

There are more considerations in each investigation but it’s not like running out and putting handcuffs on someone and calling it a day. I know that when people see a horrific crime like this and the police talk to a suspect, the citizens want handcuffs are they suspect at that moment. In many cases the officers, deputies, etc. might be able to do so legally but that might not be the best thing for the ultimate prosecution. It would be terrible to get an instant gratification from an arrest only to lose the case in court on what people like to call technicalities Are the loss of evidence do to rushing into the case. Some people might take this kind of situation as if the police do not care.

I can guarantee that the officers who witnessed this crime scene and the detectives who both had to go to the crime scene and investigate it later, want nothing more than these people in jail. They just want to get it right. This crime scene is probably a year old and there is no point in rushing at this time.

Well stated.

[tvc184]

I don't know the evidence or anything about the case, but it would not surprise me if the charge was injury to a child. It can be charged as a 1st degree felony and the evidence may lend itself to a more solid prosecution. I have no doubt the prosecutors handling the case have exhaustively considered every charging possibility.

Yes, if you don’t go capital, the injury is easier to prove in most cases for the same penalty.

I know you know the answer but….

They get in Facebook debates all the time in my area and I’m sure everywhere else in Texas as to why the police and DA charge someone with Aggravated Assault instead of Attempted Murder when someone is shot or stabbed.

The Attempted Murder sounds like a more serious charge than an assault but they are both 2nd degree felonies and with attempted murder you have to prove intent whereas in Aggravated Assault you only have to prove reckless injury with a deadly weapon. It’s kind of like the AR15, it sounds more scary than just a rifle. Injury to a child is much easier to prove than intentional murder.

[Ætheling]

I can give you some tidbits generally speaking, especially not being burdened by working in Harris County.

First and foremost, you must have probable cause. Merely finding a dead body is not probable cause of almost anything except the person is no longer living. Did the person die of natural causes? Accident? Homicide? Suicide?

Even in the case of a child such as this, there is a difference between murdering the child and the child dying because of some kind of negligence or accident.

How did the person die (we now have a ruling of homicide from the autopsy but that was not originally available I don’t think), who was responsible for the care and custody of the person such as in the case of a child or elderly invalid and that might be different than someone who caused the death, etc. Even though the child might have had parents or legal guardians, were they responsible at that time? Maybe the parents had allowed the children to stay with a relative. You don’t need a court order to let someone take care of your children.

Then there is the potential for a confession or statements by witnesses or anyone that might be accused. Merely stating, I did it, it’s not a valid confession. A person confessing to a crime must give some corroboration as to the validity of the statement by state law. This is also true for a testimony against a codefendant or conspirator.

Again not knowing about Harris County, any person can voluntarily come in and give any statement when they are not in custody and it is not coerced. Once a person is arrested or believes he is going to be arrested and not free to leave, he must be given the Miranda warning and that might end the questioning. A person always has the right to an attorney in any situation but you don’t almost have to beg them not to talk as you do under Miranda. I have taken a statement from someone involved in a homicide after the fact without giving the person any rights under Miranda (and Texas Miranda is more strict than the United States Supreme Court version which most states probably go by) and our district attorney accepted it because he drove to the police station in his own car, he signed a statement saying that he voluntarily gave it and he was not in custody and I allowed him to drive away in his own car. This guy got rid of the murder weapon after the fact and decided to tell me his side of the story but he was kind of flighty and nervous. You can certainly give someone Miranda while they are not in custody but I was scared if I gave this guy Miranda after telling him he was not in custody, he would think I was lying to him and shut up. So I just let him put his story on paper, sign it and walk out.

There are more considerations in each investigation but it’s not like running out and putting handcuffs on someone and calling it a day. I know that when people see a horrific crime like this and the police talk to a suspect, the citizens want handcuffs are they suspect at that moment. In many cases the officers, deputies, etc. might be able to do so legally but that might not be the best thing for the ultimate prosecution. It would be terrible to get an instant gratification from an arrest only to lose the case in court on what people like to call technicalities Are the loss of evidence do to rushing into the case. Some people might take this kind of situation as if the police do not care.

I can guarantee that the officers who witnessed this crime scene and the detectives who both had to go to the crime scene and investigate it later, want nothing more than these people in jail. They just want to get it right. This crime scene is probably a year old and there is no point in rushing at this time.

I can get all that re homicide. What about child abandonment?

Thank you for the write up.

What if she had killed another child while released? I just dont get it. Guess I dont have to.

[Chew]

Additional charges don't really pay off because they never stack sentences. It looks good in the news and looks good in court but they usually just end up dismissing or using the other cases for punishment. But there will be multiple charges in this case eventually. Right now it's murder on the boyfriend and injury to a child by omission on the mama.

[A&M 90]

Yes, if you don’t go capital, the injury is easier to prove in most cases for the same penalty.

I know you know the answer but….

They get in Facebook debates all the time in my area and I’m sure everywhere else in Texas as to why the police and DA charge someone with Aggravated Assault instead of Attempted Murder when someone is shot or stabbed.

The Attempted Murder sounds like a more serious charge than an assault but they are both 2nd degree felonies and with attempted murder you have to prove intent whereas in Aggravated Assault you only have to prove reckless injury with a deadly weapon. It’s kind of like the AR15, it sounds more scary than just a rifle. Injury to a child is much easier to prove than intentional murder.

Agreed - it makes no sense to file a more sensational charge for more media appeal and increase the difficulty in proving up the case against a guilty individual.

Another example: Charging Attempted Capital Murder Against a Peace Officer vs. Aggravated Assault Against a Peace Officer (harder to prove in almost every scenario / same range of punishment).

Don't get me started.

[tvc184]

Additional charges don't really pay off because they never stack sentences. It looks good in the news and looks good in court but they usually just end up dismissing or using the other cases for punishment. But there will be multiple charges in this case eventually. Right now it's murder on the boyfriend and injury to a child by omission on the mama.

Awesome. I hope Harris County does not release them on a PR bond or a $50,000 bail.

I agree on the stacking of charges which will only be served concurrently. Sometimes it just clouds the issue for the jury to decide. A convicted felon kills someone and is looking at life in prison and people will want to add the additional charge a felon in possession of a firearm. That is stuff you bring up in the punishment phase of a trial to try and get the jury to set the maximum sentence.

[Ætheling]

I would accept that there is something particular to this case that required them to remain free to ensure catching them red handed doing something and that its classified and bot for me to know. I know they like to watch criminals return to the scene of a murder for instance. I just really have heartburn over this based off the countless innocent lives lost due to someone being free that could be locked up or detained in the interim. In this case we have the child neglect. The not reporting of a dead body on your premises. I am beyond curious what it was in this particular case that they remained free when there was probable cause to detain/arrest fir the child abuse/neglect scenarios x3 and dead body x1.