Spikes?

[ATXRaider83]

Pay your lease fee, pay for corn and protein also. Put out cameras, put up high dollar stands, Pay for gas back and forth to the lease to fill feeders and maintain. when the season starts, Don't shoot any spikes unless he's at least 3.5. Don;t shoot any does either. Don't shoot any rack deer either unless he is at least 7, and you only get one of them, and if its a dry year and you think he will be better next year, pray for rain and wait until he is 8. Don't shoot any foxes, coyotes, snakes, pigs, dove, turkey or targets during deer season as this will disturb the hunting. Please don't shoot any exotics either as they are of limits. Now pack up the crew and lets go to the deer lease and have some fun.

It's farming not hunting.

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[88 Bound]

These are always great entertainment! And will eventually end up with a genetics discussion........


If you want to shoot spikes, what is your buck:doe ratio and how many does are you harvesting annually?

This. Spikes are just late fawns. The usual reason is that your buck:doe ratio is way off, which is likely because you don't shoot enough does.

TPWD spike and doe late seasons are really only good for counties that have a high deer density (AKA the Hill Country). Even there, the issue is usually that there are too many does.

[cehorn]

Your only flaw with your equation is 1.5 yr old deer doesn't equal 12 yr old kids. You have no clue what that 1.5 yr old deer is going to do... when a boy is 12 you have a pretty good indication at that age if he's going to be a tall kid or not.

I don't even think you can do that with 12 year olds. To shift to football, when I was in 7th grade I was one of the biggest kids on the team at about 5'5" and probably close to 200 and in turn was one of the best DT's and OL on the team. By the time I graduated I was 5'9" and weighed 185 lbs and did good to compete at LB vs the OL in our district. No way in hell could I have played DT. If I was a deer the ranch manager would have sworn I would break 180" some day when looking at me in 7th grade. Contrast that to another kid I grew up with. At 12 he was one of the smallest kids on the team and was on the B team barely playing. By the time we graduated he was 6'1" and one of the biggest and best LB's on the team. He ended up walking on at UT as a FB/LB. If he was a deer he would have been killed as a spike.

[Mexico]

I don't even think you can do that with 12 year olds. To shift to football, when I was in 7th grade I was one of the biggest kids on the team at about 5'5" and probably close to 200 and in turn was one of the best DT's and OL on the team. By the time I graduated I was 5'9" and weighed 185 lbs and did good to compete at LB vs the OL in our district. No way in hell could I have played DT. If I was a deer the ranch manager would have sworn I would break 180" some day when looking at me in 7th grade. Contrast that to another kid I grew up with. At 12 he was one of the smallest kids on the team and was on the B team barely playing. By the time we graduated he was 6'1" and one of the biggest and best LB's on the team. He ended up walking on at UT as a FB/LB. If he was a deer he would have been killed as a spike.

Haha... yes sir. Wish I had a crystal ball I'd love to not feed the ugly jokers but we just feed everything and see what happens.

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[cehorn]

Haha... yes sir. Wish I had a crystal ball I'd love to not feed the ugly jokers but we just feed everything and see what happens.

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Yep. As someone else stated a spike is a good kid's first buck but that's about it until you see what they become.

[dustoffer]

This is what the latest studies I’ve read encourage
Being a spike the first year doesn’t mean anything long term is what the data showed

I let them walk the first year , refer to them as Rudys

Never know[emoji3]


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Dr Deer (?) published a study on free range deer (not the penned ones at Kerr) and with over 3000 captures/recaptures or seeing deer hunters had taken. The data showed that by age 4.5 (I think), spikes had caught up with their fork-horned brothers in every category of B&C measurement except mass. And to back up this study and conclusion, another researcher in Mississippi did a same/similar study with the same results/conclusions.

Major fault with the Kerr study--not random, as the "stud buck" in the pen was a yearling spike. This was published in Texas Trophy Hunter some years back---I still have the magazines somewhere.

[jshouse]

Get them spikes out of the way, and the does before Thanksgiving.

[OldRiverRat]

Dr Deer (?) published a study on free range deer (not the penned ones at Kerr) and with over 3000 captures/recaptures or seeing deer hunters had taken. The data showed that by age 4.5 (I think), spikes had caught up with their fork-horned brothers in every category of B&C measurement except mass. And to back up this study and conclusion, another researcher in Mississippi did a same/similar study with the same results/conclusions.

Major fault with the Kerr study--not random, as the "stud buck" in the pen was a yearling spike. This was published in Texas Trophy Hunter some years back---I still have the magazines somewhere.

Yes sir that’s one of the studies I remember reading


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[JustinB]

I've been watching my stepson play football offensive and defensive line since he was in pee-wee. He was pretty average.

In the last two games as a freshman, he has become their best defensive lineman.

I let the spikes walk.....no telling what they will turn into.

[CEO]

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[RJH1]

So studies show that even after 4.5 years spikes aren't as good as non spikes and are passing on inferior genetics to their offspring. Kill'em

[Tex_Cattleman]

If we take this as a genetics discussion only, there is zero benefit to killing a spike. The reason is that you CANNOT achieve genetic improvements in low fence herds by management killing. This has been proven in multiple studies. You can however grow larger bucks by simply letting them mature. Those that reply "we improved the herd on our place with selected harvesting" I bet you see improvements from age on bucks. Then the argument "spike on average won't reach the size of forked babies"? Who cares if there is a smaller 5 year old? If you say "I don't want him breeding" then go back to my first point above.

Listen - you can take my knowledge and expertise to the bank on this. My credentials as an experienced mortgage lender are unquestionable.


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[jshouse]

If we take this as a genetics discussion only, there is zero benefit to killing a spike. The reason is that you CANNOT achieve genetic improvements in low fence herds by management killing. This has been proven in multiple studies. You can however grow larger bucks by simply letting them mature. Those that reply "we improved the herd on our place with selected harvesting" I bet you see improvements from age on bucks. Then the argument "spike on average won't reach the size of forked babies"? Who cares if there is a smaller 5 year old? If you say "I don't want him breeding" then go back to my first point above.

Listen - you can take my knowledge and expertise to the bank on this. My credentials as an experienced mortgage lender are unquestionable.


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hypothetical scenario

you tell your 10yo nephew he can come to your lease and kill his first deer, and he is pumped, he dont sleep for 4 days. its sunday evening, nothing in the cooler yet, and 10mins before dark out walk two deer, both appear very young, very similar sized bodies. one is a spike and one is a 6pt, which one gets the bullet?

[Tex_Cattleman]

hypothetical scenario

you tell your 10yo nephew he can come to your lease and kill his first deer, and he is pumped, he dont sleep for 4 days. its sunday evening, nothing in the cooler yet, and 10mins before dark out walk two deer, both appear very young, very similar sized bodies. one is a spike and one is a 6pt, which one gets the bullet?

Completely his choice if he's never killed a buck! We have a firm lease rule that for a kid's first deer, there are no rules, other than no trophy. Everything we do there is about the kids. If he's killed a few deer already, he gets a green light on the spike. That decision is based on the probability of the six point being better at 5 or 6 years old. It does not have anything to do with that spike spreading genetics.

[Walker]

hypothetical scenario

you tell your 10yo nephew he can come to your lease and kill his first deer, and he is pumped, he dont sleep for 4 days. its sunday evening, nothing in the cooler yet, and 10mins before dark out walk two deer, both appear very young, very similar sized bodies. one is a spike and one is a 6pt, which one gets the bullet?

Good one. Here's another. Your a deer farmer and go to a 1.5 yo buck auction. There are spikes, 4pts., and 6pts. Which one will you buy for your breeder. But, and a big but is there are a lot more concerns with your deer herd than just antler genetics.