Shocking?

[Mayhem]

Well I’m not going to argue but I will never understand how a Christian can judge another who brings millions of people to the faith by preaching hope. It’s not the full gospel but it’s definitely a part of it and it’s very useful to gain attention in a dark world. I have met Joel and spoken with him, he loves the Lord and he’s fulfilling his calling. I’m in ministry myself and fully understand that his messages are surface only and a deeper level relationship is needed after but can’t get mad at anyone for opening the door....

Steve

You said preaching HOPE. You can have all the Hope in the world but if you are not redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ you have no hope.

IMO, he is doing people who come to that church a huge disservice by only scratching the surface. Now, if he would put it all out on the table and let folks know that the only way to heaven is being redeemed by the blood of the father and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you wouldn't hear a word out of me, but Joel would rather talk about HOPE.

Now if people know that a relationship with Jesus Christ is key and choose to reject that, that's is on them, but it is his job to tell his congregation that.

[Mexico]

People want this Josh, not the Gospel. I want the gospel.




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Clapping silently

[3DW5]

Actually its his job to share the plan of salvation with them, not pump sunshine up their butts.

Great motivational speaker, really pumps people up for the work week. However he does not save souls.

[Saltaholic]

Shocking?

You said preaching HOPE. You can have all the Hope in the world but if you are not redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ you have no hope.

IMO, he is doing people who come to that church a huge disservice by only scratching the surface. Now, if he would put it all out on the table and let folks know that the only way to heaven is being redeemed by the blood of the father and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you wouldn't hear a word out of me, but Joel would rather talk about HOPE.

Now if people know that a relationship with Jesus Christ is key and choose to reject that, that's is on them, but it is his job to tell his congregation that.

Your missing my point. If Joel brings millions to even start thinking about Jesus then it’s a success for Christians as a whole. His message would not be nearly as attractive if he preached about suffering etc. I know not all the people attracted by Joel will truly find the Lord but as long as some do then it’s awesome. He’s leading horses to water now they have to figure out how and what to drink... and yes a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way but there are many ways to get that relationship started and coming to Lakewood or listening to Joel is definitely a way to start for many.

I’m out.. good discussion God bless

[Mayhem]

Preaching prosperity isnt leading anyone, anywhere but hell.

[Hoggslayer]

You said preaching HOPE. You can have all the Hope in the world but if you are not redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ you have no hope.

IMO, he is doing people who come to that church a huge disservice by only scratching the surface. Now, if he would put it all out on the table and let folks know that the only way to heaven is being redeemed by the blood of the father and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you wouldn't hear a word out of me, but Joel would rather talk about HOPE.

Now if people know that a relationship with Jesus Christ is key and choose to reject that, that's is on them, but it is his job to tell his congregation that.

So should we greet people at the door with a knock on the head until they drop to their knees and repent?

For most people coming to Christ is a JOURNEY. We invite people on this journey so they can see Gods full grace and glory at the completion of it.
Different preachers use different methods. If it invites one more person to start their journey then I'm good with that.

My church has one mission.
TO GLORIFY GOD BY HELPING ALL PEOPLE ADVANCE IN THEIR
JOURNEY WITH CHRIST.

JOURNEY:On!

[SETXoutdoorsman]

Y'all need to get off the pulpit and go stick something with your bow.....

.....or eat a Snickers!

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. That is what is taking place in this thread and if you personally are not a fan of this thread, please keep to yourself because plenty of us here enjoy these threads that speak truth.

[Mayhem]

So should we greet people at the door with a knock on the head until they drop to their knees and repent?

For most people coming to Christ is a JOURNEY. We invite people on this journey so they can see Gods full grace and glory at the completion of it.
Different preachers use different methods. If it invites one more person to start their journey then I'm good with that.

My church has one mission.
TO GLORIFY GOD BY HELPING ALL PEOPLE ADVANCE IN THEIR
JOURNEY WITH CHRIST.

JOURNEY:On!

I didnt say that, but he at the very least share the plan of salvation with them.

I believe you have to know Christ before you can have a journey with Christ.

[Pineywoods]

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. That is what is taking place in this thread and if you personally are not a fan of this thread, please keep to yourself because plenty of us here enjoy these threads that speak truth.

Agreed

[RiverRat1]

Your missing my point. If Joel brings millions to even start thinking about Jesus then it’s a success for Christians as a whole. His message would not be nearly as attractive if he preached about suffering etc. I know not all the people attracted by Joel will truly find the Lord but as long as some do then it’s awesome. He’s leading horses to water now they have to figure out how and what to drink... and yes a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way but there are many ways to get that relationship started and coming to Lakewood or listening to Joel is definitely a way to start for many.

I’m out.. good discussion God bless

But what if more people think what Joel teaches is all there is? He may be leading more people too hell than heaven by leading them astray. It's his job to teach/preach the full gospel, not just the parts that sound good to itchy ears.

[Saltaholic]

Shocking?

But what if more people think what Joel teaches is all there is? He may be leading more people too hell than heaven by leading them astray. It's his job to teach/preach the full gospel, not just the parts that sound good to itchy ears.

Have you ever listened to one of his messages? Ever attended a Wednesday night or Sunday eve service at Lakewood? Trust me once someone comes to the church there are lots of other resources and pastors to point people in the right direction and several services each week preached by other pastors. Call it a bait and switch if you like but it works.

Simple question- will people be in heaven because of Joel?? Of course they will, so we as Christians we don’t have to support or agree but definitely shouldn’t be judging or bashing anyone of the faith....

What about the guy on TBH who is in a rough spot and wants to visit a church soon but reads this thread and finds negativity and judgement from Christians then decides we are probably no different than others.....

[Hoggslayer]

But what if more people think what Joel teaches is all there is? He may be leading more people too hell than heaven by leading them astray. It's his job to teach/preach the full gospel, not just the parts that sound good to itchy ears.

If you were trying to turn people onto bow hunting would the first thing you tell them is that they will be unsuccessful the majority of the time? That they will spend hours in a tree freezing their tails off only to have a old doe wind them and scare off everything in the woods. Or would you try to explain the feeling you get when it does finely work in their favor. When all the work and scouting and endless time in the stand finally pays off with that monster buck.

There is an old testament and new testament for a reason. God is perfect in both his wrath and his grace.

[Death from Above]

Simply believing isn't enough, it's a matter of living your beliefs.

Not according to Jesus in John 3:16

If people come to the saving knowledge of Jesus and are not discipled, then how will they know to live a changed life?

Church people (aka”Christians”) need to get off their high horses and in the fight.

It is your job to make disciples....don’t believe me? Read the last few verses of Matthew.

[Pineywoods]

If you were trying to turn people onto bow hunting would the first thing you tell them is that they will be unsuccessful the majority of the time? That they will spend hours in a tree freezing their tails off only to have a old doe wind them and scare off everything in the woods. Or would you try to explain the feeling you get when it does finely work in their favor. When all the work and scouting and endless time in the stand finally pays off with that monster buck.

There is an old testament and new testament for a reason. God is perfect in both his wrath and his grace.

When the rich young man wanted to follow Jesus, He told him, Go first and sell what you have and give it to the poor and then come follow me. This wasn't what the young man wanted to hear and was tough to swallow... Jesus never eased him into showing him his true heart and his love for his wealth. He cut right to the chase.

Mark 10:17-23 (NIV)

The Rich and the Kingdom of God

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”


And in John 6, Jesus taught a very hard message so that most of those following Him turned away and would no longer walk in His company. He did not soften His message so as to win them.

Matthew 6:60-66...

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.


Jesus also said this in Matthew 10...

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

He knows the truth of the word of God is divisive. Jesus taught some hard stuff and as a Christian (Christ-like) we are not to soften truth to win souls. I'm not saying it always has to be hell fire and brimstone but always the unedited unapologetic truth.

[Hoggslayer]

He knows the truth of the word of God is divisive. Jesus taught some hard stuff and as a Christian (Christ-like) we are not to soften truth to win souls. I'm not saying it always has to be hell fire and brimstone but always the unedited unapologetic truth.

I've never meet Joel Osteen. I've never asked him to counsel me on any subject so I have no idea on what he would say. I have sought wise counsel from a few pastors and great men of faith. I think most of them that preach in a manner that you refer to as "soften truth" will preach what the bible says when asked for counsel about a specific subject.