Question about lease rules

[bowhuntntxn]

2 questions about a trend I have noticed on some lease rules

1. Why do some places not let you shoot at least the county limit? Meaning some places allow 1 trophy, 1 cull, and 1 doe in a 5 deer county. These are usually very high priced also.

2. Why do places that are really big make your families deer come from your "limit"? They have to buy a license just like every one else, and will it make tha big of an impact to have your wife or kids shoot a couple of more does off of a 3000 acre ranch?

Just thinking out loud, but these 2 things have never made sense to me.

[CastAndBlast]

I don't know about question 1, but question 2 is pretty easy. Because not all families are going to just shoot "couple of does".

[tractorred]

Landowner owns the place so I guess he can set the rules.

[redbeard]

Some of the bigger ranches have a resident biologist that tells the owner what should be harvested, how many bucks and how many does. The deer coming out of your quota is just part of that management plan. Of course I could be way off base on this

[Mike Murphey]

It all comes down to what you want the ranch to produce. We do spotlight surveys that determine the numbers of animals that can be taken off to keep a balance in the bucks and does along with age structure. If you let everyone come in a shoot whatever they want, you more than likely will take too many.

[Kevin]

There are many MANY reasons, but I will list a few here... They answer both questions.

1. Most leases put too many people on a piece of property. If you have a 200 acre lease with 4 guys on it and its surrounded by 200 acre leases with 4 guys on it, you will hammer the deer population in a few seasons if everyone shot the limit. The limits are MAX amounts recommended for the county, and some places within a county are much better than others.

2. Some places have wildlife biologists that manage the population for that ranch only. This goes back to the county info above. The custom recommendations on a specific piece of property outweigh the overall county limit maximum (see MLD on this also). Some ranches want to keep 1:1 ratio, others want 1:2 or as many does as possible. Depends on your goals for the ranch.

3. With regards to your second point, there are people that take advantage of EVERYTHING they can. We encouter those types of people in daily life all the time. If you allow them to bring guests and they don't shoot off the overall tag numbers, they will bring 14 distant relatives to hammer away at the deer. Next thing you know paying members start leaving because the numbers are down.

I could list many other reasons, but those I think are pretty comprehensive. Of course sometimes you just have landowners that don't want additional people on his place (and the liability that entails) or are old school about how to manage a deer herd.

[Breezy]

It all comes down to what you want the ranch to produce. We do spotlight surveys that determine the numbers of animals that can be taken off to keep a balance in the bucks and does along with age structure. If you let everyone come in a shoot whatever they want, you more than likely will take too many.

There are many MANY reasons, but I will list a few here... They answer both questions.

1. Most leases put too many people on a piece of property. If you have a 200 acre lease with 4 guys on it and its surrounded by 200 acre leases with 4 guys on it, you will hammer the deer population in a few seasons if everyone shot the limit. The limits are MAX amounts recommended for the county, and some places within a county are much better than others.

2. Some places have wildlife biologists that manage the population for that ranch only. This goes back to the county info above. The custom recommendations on a specific piece of property outweigh the overall county limit maximum (see MLD on this also). Some ranches want to keep 1:1 ratio, others want 1:2 or as many does as possible. Depends on your goals for the ranch.

3. With regards to your second point, there are people that take advantage of EVERYTHING they can. We encouter those types of people in daily life all the time. If you allow them to bring guests and they don't shoot off the overall tag numbers, they will bring 14 distant relatives to hammer away at the deer. Next thing you know paying members start leaving because the numbers are down.

I could list many other reasons, but those I think are pretty comprehensive. Of course sometimes you just have landowners that don't want additional people on his place (and the liability that entails) or are old school about how to manage a deer herd.

X2

IMO i dont want to hunt with others who want to fill their tags. I want to hunt with others who are management minded trophy hunters. Its all what you want out of that lease that you are on. I know guys that want to fill their tags every single year and they are the ones who go hunt after hunt without seeing a single deer. On the other hand the lease/ranch that i along with several others on here hunt on could careless about filling our tags and we see tons of wildlife every single hunt. Hell we give most if not all of our deer meat away to friends and family.

[Smart]

#2
It's simple math.....4 members hunting on 600 acres. Each member has 4 family "hunters" who have purchase licenses. That is 4 members x 4 family member or 16 guns now on 600 acres. 16 x 4 deer each is 64 deer can be killed on 600 acres if a landowner would let that be. Certainly when you look at the math, you can understand what that can do to a place........especially if allowed over a long period of time. Most property just cannot keep that amount of deer supplied.

[Dr. D]

#2
It's simple math.....4 members hunting on 600 acres. Each member has 4 family "hunters" who have purchase licenses. That is 4 members x 4 family member or 16 guns now on 600 acres. 16 x 4 deer each is 64 deer can be killed on 600 acres if a landowner would let that be. Certainly when you look at the math, you can understand what that can do to a place........especially if allowed over a long period of time. Most property just cannot keep that amount of deer supplied.

I didn't know Lisa was home! I know now, because I know you didn't do that math......although I concur with your point.

[tvc184]

#2
It's simple math.....4 members hunting on 600 acres. Each member has 4 family "hunters" who have purchase licenses. That is 4 members x 4 family member or 16 guns now on 600 acres. 16 x 4 deer each is 64 deer can be killed on 600 acres if a landowner would let that be. Certainly when you look at the math, you can understand what that can do to a place........especially if allowed over a long period of time. Most property just cannot keep that amount of deer supplied.

.... and therein lies the answer. If you have families making meat hunts within the law, you can wipe out a lease in short order.

[bowhuntntxn]

you guys seem to have missed the point of it being a large lease(1k+ acres). I understand the impact on smaller properties, but on a 2400 acre section of a 17000 acre ranch, the impact will not be that much to allow families kill a few extra does. And really, on a place that big more than likely there will be a MLD program in place. I read too many threads here of people saying how much of a pain in the butt it is to kill all the does necessary, and then I see a lease that is 2400 acres, which is a section of a much larger ranch, and you get to kill 2 bucks and 1 doe.

Unless the herd numbers have already been optimized, this will throw off the balance of the herd really quickly. I do not have anything against being management minded, but c'mon.. get real $3500 for a spot, mandatory protein fees, mandatory corn fees, fuel and all the other misc. things that go into a lease, and get 3 deer in a 5 deer county, and not even a consideration for family after all those costs. I think that drives home the fact that deer hunting in TX is rapidly becoming the rich man's game.

And as far as I can tell, the landowner has very little to do with what the "lease manager" decides to make the rules.

[Kevin]

Dude your ramblings just don't make sense. What are you asking? You are citing one specific example like there will be an answer that fits every property in Texas. The above posts still answer your questions above. Does are a dime a dozen! If people are spending $3.5+ on a lease that is extremely well managed, chances are they could care less about shooting more does, its just part of the management routine. There are plenty of cheap leases if you want them, just got to get out there and find them. Found my dad a $500 per spot lease within 1 hr of DFW and we killed 2 bucks and a doe this year. Trophy hunting is not a poor man's game... but thats not surprising at all.

BTW... a 1k acre ranch can get shot out as easily as a 200 ac ranch. All it takes it people taking too many deer off the place.

[Smart]

you guys seem to have missed the point of it being a large lease(1k+ acres). I understand the impact on smaller properties, but on a 2400 acre section of a 17000 acre ranch, the impact will not be that much to allow families kill a few extra does. And really, on a place that big more than likely there will be a MLD program in place. I read too many threads here of people saying how much of a pain in the butt it is to kill all the does necessary, and then I see a lease that is 2400 acres, which is a section of a much larger ranch, and you get to kill 2 bucks and 1 doe.

Unless the herd numbers have already been optimized, this will throw off the balance of the herd really quickly. I do not have anything against being management minded, but c'mon.. get real $3500 for a spot, mandatory protein fees, mandatory corn fees, fuel and all the other misc. things that go into a lease, and get 3 deer in a 5 deer county, and not even a consideration for family after all those costs. I think that drives home the fact that deer hunting in TX is rapidly becoming the rich man's game.

If all properties were like your MLD scenario, more does/bucks could be taken. Unfortunately all populations aren't the same....and I cannot fault the landowner for trying to protect his investment for future years. We talk bad about landowners leasing to new members or groups when they know their place is shot out.....and now we are talking bad about them for keeping it with a healthy herd. SHEESH...

I'm betting the "poor man" (play on your words) sure would hate taking a hit on the chin for a $500-$1000/year lease without animals when his prior "poor man" buddies and their families filled their tags for 3-4 years and shot the place out. And now due to leniency and trying to make his previous lessees happy, the landowner gets a bad name on the internet for leasing his property without deer for money he counts on every year...and possibly losing more future revenue.

The average Texas lease you describe above is far from the general rule Mandatory protein, mandatory corn and $3500/ year is far from the norm...but it works nicely to sensationalize.

[Kevin]

Here is a pic of deer of the 200 acre $500 lease I got my dad on



I think in 3 years they have taken 4 bucks and 2 does, but could easily limit out on does and young bucks every year.

[Dr. D]

Here is a pic of deer of the 200 acre $500 lease I got my dad on



I think in 3 years they have taken 4 bucks and 2 does, but could easily limit out on does and young bucks every year.

Thank you.