low fence genetics

[mrc]

That's probably plenty of water I would think but I have heard a lot of people quote "a water source and a mineral site every 80-100 acres" I doubt that's a bad ratio but affordable and do able is the question. I have started using chemical totes (300 gallons) to make waterings with. Call me lazy unethical or what have you but I shoot for putting mineral sites, waterings, and my feeders in the same spot and close enough proximity 1 game camera covers it lol

I used to date a girl that was from young county and her family that owned land and hunted it around there. The biggest buck any of them had every shot was a 140ish 8 or 9 point I cant remember which.

After thinking I forgot the 2 springs and the new tank I just dug, they are spread out an I probably have a water source for every 80 acres or so. I will start some minerals pretty soon and maybe next year our 4th on protein we will see some improvements. There are some monsters around here just few and far between I seen 2 last year from Young county that probably went 160 and maybe 180 on the other.

[DuramaxDude]

After thinking I forgot the 2 springs and the new tank I just dug, they are spread out an I probably have a water source for every 80 acres or so. I will start some minerals pretty soon and maybe next year our 4th on protein we will see some improvements. There are some monsters around here just few and far between I seen 2 last year from Young county that probably went 160 and maybe 180 on the other.

Yup that sounds like a good bit of water. Nice I would love to see a 160 or 180 again its been a LONG time. I also have been trying to keep protein blocks out all through the antler growth period along with the mineral but the freaking hogs wear them out so fast I stopped putting them out.

[MASTERS]

To kill big deer you have to hunt where they live, to kill old deer you have to sit on your hands and wait, to have those paths cross you have to not be afraid to do a bunch of sitting and watching. Its a numbers game, the more old bucks you have survive the better chance at seeing a superior antlered one not just a decent antlered one like you posted.

[TTU TX Hunter]

I'm in the stand as I type this scouting just North of you in Archer doing some scouting. We only have two deer on camera that are over 8 points and they are actually just 3 and 4 yrs old. The few mature deer we have are just 120ish 8s. I bet this happens to you as it does us but it seems like every year half the bucks we see in the rut are residents and the others are travelers and these travelers seem to be our biggest deer we've taken off the place.

[Jayt22]

Nothing wrong with a big 8!

[aggieman08]

I understand age is key, and since I am basically the only one who hunts there and I only kill one mature ish buck a year, plus a spike the bucks are getting older every year. I am not trying to make this a trophy lease per say just a place to kill good deer and have fun. It just confuses me when you can go 10 miles down the road and see 2 1/2 year old 10 points that are 10" wide, and most of my 2 1/2 year olds are 8 pt. and stay that way.

I was on a deer lease where spikes were shot and eventually the place went down hill due to that and several other factors. If spikes or nubbin's are being killed, there is a good chance that you are killing your future trophies.

[mrc]

I was on a deer lease where spikes were shot and eventually the place went down hill due to that and several other factors. If spikes or nubbin's are being killed, there is a good chance that you are killing your future trophies.

Spikes being killed isn't the issue one a year isn't killing the herd.

[twosixteens]

Been hunting the same place in a Young County for nearly 20 years we rarely see a buck in the field or on camera with more than 8 points

[SwineAssassiN]

If the property around the 500 acres isn't on the same management plan that could be a big issue.

[mrc]

If the property around the 500 acres isn't on the same management plan that could be a big issue.

Property around me is very lightly hunted, 6 other hunters that I know of on the surrounding 300 acres or so. There is no management plans around me, but also no feeders around.

[mrc]

Nothing wrong with a big 8!

Trust me I am not complaining, just been thinking about this for the last 2 months since I put the cameras back out.

[txwhitetail]

I was on a deer lease where spikes were shot and eventually the place went down hill due to that and several other factors. If spikes or nubbin's are being killed, there is a good chance that you are killing your future trophies.

I don't think a spike a year is killing the place. I would guess he has some pretty heavy pressure in the area and a lot of the remaining older bucks are shot each year and the 8s are left alone.

[Hart8]

x2

Yessir.

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[Deerguy]

Difficult to say what the problem might be without survey data to base decisions on. As some have said, density may be an issue, as well as age structure. But, the largest problem may simply be that anything with more 8 points is targeted more intensely than something with 8 points. The results over time is an absence of the deer that have been overharvested. But, this does not mean that there is a genetics problem. The ability to alter the genetic capability of a deer herd is minimal at best. But, you absolutely can alter the phenotypical appearance of the deer by selecting against the deer with more than 8 points. Stopping all harvest is not an option as I suspect you already have a density issue with too many deer. This is almost always due to having too many does, but you might also be in a situation where you have too many bucks as well. Having too many bucks, with a reduced age structure, is a difficult situation to be in in that you need to harvest bucks, but you also do not want to further suppress the age structure. The solution to this is to hammer the does (the number 1 issue as you control population growth with females, not males), and harvest the recommend number of bucks (as determined by surveys with somebody looking at the data that knows what they're doing) equally across age classes (shooting off the bottom of each age class as opposed to the top end, which is what everybody usually does. Realize though that you're not doing anything to change the genetics of your deer herd, you're just letting the better bucks live and killing the ones that do not show the potential that you desire (altering the phenotypical response). Over time, you should start to see some improvement. It's not just age structure, it's also which deer are reaching mature age classes. A slot limit approach may also be helpful, especially if the hunters are unsure of their ability to age on the hoof. Shoot your recommended number of bucks, just put 9 and 10 points off limits for a while and raise target age on mature buck harvest (not culls) to 6.5+ only (do everything you can to limit 4.5s and 5.5s).