Arrow length and shooting longer distances

[Stoof]

So I am shooting FMJ 340's cut at 27 1/4 for a 28 inch draw. And I run 125 and 140 grn heads. They shoot like laser beams out to about 40 yds. Short stiff arrows. Now that I am shooting out to 80 yds for fun on a regular basis my groups are opening up and I am hitting a 12 inch group range. Now of course some of this could be shooter error (me) but I figure a longer arrow might be in order from what the interwebs has told me. I got a new batch of shafts to cut. I thought about cutting a few longer in half inch increments to see what happens but once you glue in the HIT insert they are a PITA to get out.

So, what to do?

[xman59]

So I am shooting FMJ 340's cut at 27 1/4 for a 28 inch draw. And I run 125 and 140 grn heads. They shoot like laser beams out to about 40 yds. Short stiff arrows. Now that I am shooting out to 80 yds for fun on a regular basis my groups are opening up and I am hitting a 12 inch group range. Now of course some of this could be shooter error (me) but I figure a longer arrow might be in order from what the interwebs has told me. I got a new batch of shafts to cut. I thought about cutting a few longer in half inch increments to see what happens but once you glue in the HIT insert they are a PITA to get out.

So, what to do?

i shoot standard axis out to 135 yards,28" 340 at 63#, fletch makes more difference than most will admit,,, i did a lot of testing for myself, 3" parabolic feathers were easily the best, 3" parabolic vanes were second, i used at least 5 different shafts and several different vanes,3 different feathers,, never been a blazer vane fan, they gave me no reason to change my mind either

[Texas Grown]

Experiment with cheaper shafts that shoot half way good?

I asked a similar question on here years ago. But never really got much info as to whether a longer shaft would be more accurate than a shorter shaft, at longer distances given all the other variables were constant.

[Rat]

i shoot standard axis out to 135 yards,28" 340 at 63#, fletch makes more difference than most will admit,,, i did a lot of testing for myself, 3" parabolic feathers were easily the best, 3" parabolic vanes were second, i used at least 5 different shafts and several different vanes,3 different feathers,, never been a blazer vane fan, they gave me no reason to change my mind either

All of the above is true.
And a little more...
The length will not matter as much as other things, a big one being FOC. The more FOC the better the arrow will fly, up to a point of course. Heavy FOC increases the overall flight characteristics of the shaft phenomenally. So much so that you can use even smaller rear steerage to accomplish great feats of accuracy.

But nothing matters as much as tune; and by tune I mean your form and the bows tuning.

In reading up on this many years ago I found that that longer isn't necessarily better, but that there is an "optimal" length for a shaft based on a pretty complicated ballistic coefficient that uses many different kinds of drag for many different kinds of conditions (gravity, air density, fletch design and composition, weight and MANY other factors). IOW, you really need to be a rocket scientist (literally) to figure it all out.

Most would be better served in getting a tuned system to work than trying to find the optimal length. If the shaft bare tunes well and groups with fletched shafts you are good to go. It will be much easier, and just as effective, to play with FOC and rear steerage than to try and find the optimal length.

Everything is trade off, there is no silver arrow (except in Lone Ranger movies), tune for what you need by procedures that are already proven effective; no need to go off the reservation on this one.

[bassmatt72]

When I was shooting greater distances the biggest things that I saw make a difference was making absolutely sure my bow was tuned as perfectly as I could get it, the other was changing my fletching. I went to 4" parabolic with a fairly aggressive helical to them. These two things made a big difference for me and tightened my 60-100 yard groups a bunch. Oh, to tie this into arrow length, I did this all on the same length arrows I had been shooting before changing the fletching. I have always been a big fan of FOC mass and had plenty to work with. So, I guess what I'm saying is for me arrow length didn't matter other than draw length and maintaining FOC.

[popup_menace]

From everything I have seen from shooting, a properly tuned arrow will maintain accuracy out to about 60-70 yards before very small things make a difference. I want to try the longer parabolic fletch, but I want to get some straight offset arms for my ez fletch before I do. The idea of more helical on an arrow being more accurate is true until that spin causes unnecessary arrow speed loss.


Could you post up your total setup so that we can maybe recommend something?

[Bisch]

Arrow length and shooting longer distances

If you use Quick Stick hot melt glue from Big Jim's Bow Company, you can change inserts at will, and never have to worry about losing inserts in targets either! I have been using this glue for my HIT inserts in FMJ's for several years, and have yet to lose a single insert!

https://bigjimsbowcompany.com/?s=quick+stick

Bisch

[JTeLarkin08]

So I am shooting FMJ 340's cut at 27 1/4 for a 28 inch draw. And I run 125 and 140 grn heads. They shoot like laser beams out to about 40 yds. Short stiff arrows. Now that I am shooting out to 80 yds for fun on a regular basis my groups are opening up and I am hitting a 12 inch group range. Now of course some of this could be shooter error (me) but I figure a longer arrow might be in order from what the interwebs has told me. I got a new batch of shafts to cut. I thought about cutting a few longer in half inch increments to see what happens but once you glue in the HIT insert they are a PITA to get out.

So, what to do?

Tim Gillingham has tinkered and shot more arrows than anyone alive probably. He shoots an overdraw on everything and as short of an arrow as he can. Heck even levi morgan shoots a 28" hunting arrow with his long draw. I think you just need to hold your pin stiller

[Stoof]

I am pretty sure that my form is an issue. I use a Fast Eddie site and at 80 yds my pin covers most of my block target. It can be hard to aim small at those distances.

[muzzlebrake]

No doubt that the more surface area you have on the arrow shaft and fletchings the more it will be affected by drag and crosswinds. I can see an over draw helping but does that affect effective brace height? More brace height usually means a more forgiving launch.

[Stoof]

Over draw is a new concept to me. I found this and it does a good job of explaining it.

http://www.bow-international.com/features/technique/the-overdraw-understood/

It looks like I am on the right path with my arrows and set up. I need to fix the shooter.

[Rat]

I am pretty sure that my form is an issue. I use a Fast Eddie site and at 80 yds my pin covers most of my block target. It can be hard to aim small at those distances.

Get a lens for the Fast Eddie, start with a 2x and work your way up. You can also try a smaller pin (.010 or .019) if you are using the .29 one now, but that will limit pin brightness for hunting.

[Rat]

No doubt that the more surface area you have on the arrow shaft and fletchings the more it will be affected by drag and crosswinds. I can see an over draw helping but does that affect effective brace height? More brace height usually means a more forgiving launch.

Yes, an overdraw is a little less forgiving to shoot. Back in the late '80s and early '90s when I started shooting competitively many of us used overdraws for speed for 3D shooting. I remember shooting a PSE Fireflight Express with a 26.25" arrow (my DL is 28.75") @ 277 FPS; that was smokin' back then.

We blew up a lot of bows too...

[Briar Friar]

Can FMJs be spined indexed? Ive gathered its not phenominally advantageous at shorter distances but the consistent nock and spine indexing is worth the groupings at 60+ yds.

[Rat]

Sure, they can be checked at least, I've never checked any, they may not have much variance.