Waco mini series. Branch Davidian

[Jaybo31]

I don't really know what this series can tell us who remembers it all. If someone watched it let us know

I think its supposed to shed light on both sides of the story. More so than what we've been told all along. At least thats what they say anyway.

[miket]

I think its supposed to shed light on both sides of the story. More so than what we've been told all along. At least thats what they say anyway.

Seems like thats whats happening. They covered a decent bit of Ruby Ridge and showed the murder of Weavers wife. The producers clearly arent trying to portray the govt ( or at least atf and fbi ) in a good light.

[.270]

When I was at SWT in the late 90's I took Anthropology Magic, Ritual, and Religion as one of my electives. My prof was part of the team of experts that were brought in to help the govt determine "What did we do wrong?" "How could we prevent this again"? Essentially, to his followers the Govt proved Koresh to be correct in their eyes.

[jerp]

I don't think I will watch the Hollywood version. However, last month A&E ran a documentary called "David Koresh, Madman or Messiah?" which was pretty well done. The interviews with LEO, negotiators and cult members who were there was very revealing. It seems apparent that the big mistake was going ahead with the raid even though they knew they had lost the element of surprise. They really underestimated the resident's willingness to fight to the death. Tragic outcome all around. Hard to imagine, but they interviewed several people who are still true believers - contending that Koresh was in fact divine and will come back.

[Jaybo31]

I don't think I will watch the Hollywood version. However, last month A&E ran a documentary called "David Koresh, Madman or Messiah?" which was pretty well done. The interviews with LEO, negotiators and cult members who were there was very revealing. It seems apparent that the big mistake was going ahead with the raid even though they knew they had lost the element of surprise. They really underestimated the resident's willingness to fight to the death. Tragic outcome all around. Hard to imagine, but they interviewed several people who are still true believers - contending that Koresh was in fact divine and will come back.

Yeah I watched that too. It was a good show.

[miket]

When I was at SWT in the late 90's I took Anthropology Magic, Ritual, and Religion as one of my electives. My prof was part of the team of experts that were brought in to help the govt determine "What did we do wrong?" "How could we prevent this again"? Essentially, to his followers the Govt proved Koresh to be correct in their eyes.

Yep, I think they knew it too. Anybody with any age on them knows the more you pressure/persecute someone with a strongly held belief system ( right or wrong ) the more they hold to it. The more strongly they feel. Just like in Iraq, our actions turned more against us ( again, right or wrong ) In the end you leave em alone ( if they arent hurting anyone ) or crush them. The US govt ( specifically Reno, Clinton ) decided to crush them ( IMO ) and play it off as ineptitude. It was all a foolish show of govt power to put down the "separatist" "white power" "right wing" and "christian" etc groups and show them that the govt is almighty.

[systemnt]

Yep, I think they knew it too. Anybody with any age on them knows the more you pressure/persecute someone with a strongly held belief system ( right or wrong ) the more they hold to it. The more strongly they feel. Just like in Iraq, our actions turned more against us ( again, right or wrong ) In the end you leave em alone ( if they arent hurting anyone ) or crush them. The US govt ( specifically Reno, Clinton ) decided to crush them ( IMO ) and play it off as ineptitude. It was all a foolish show of govt power to put down the "separatist" "white power" "right wing" and "christian" etc groups and show them that the govt is almighty.

except for the whole child molestation thing...meets the criteria for your immediate bracketed point..so everything else making the case that it was 'foolish show' is now irrelevant.

the screwed up the element of surprise.. doesnt change the alleged crimes being committed, or the need to intervene.

[miket]

except for the whole child molestation thing...meets the criteria for your immediate bracketed point..so everything else making the case that it was 'foolish show' is now irrelevant.

the screwed up the element of surprise.. doesnt change the alleged crimes being committed, or the need to intervene.

Roger that. But it was much more than just picking up a child molester. That was the justification but not the true reasoning. ( IMO ) And just to make sure I am not misunderstood, I am not sure if Koresh truly believed what he was teaching, or he was just a good manipulator, but either way, there is no doubt in my mind he needed to be arrested and tried. And if convicted, pay for any and all crimes ( death penalty for child molestation IMO ). I know Weaver was gulity too. And should be ( was ) tried and convicted for the sawed off shotguns. But this was all much more in my opinion.

[PondPopper]

Lots of innocent people got murdered on both sides. The bureaucrats who orchestrated the fiasco got promotions and raises. Same old song and dance.

Somebody was paying attention.. Nailed it..

[miket]

except for the whole child molestation thing...meets the criteria for your immediate bracketed point..so everything else making the case that it was 'foolish show' is now irrelevant.

the screwed up the element of surprise.. doesnt change the alleged crimes being committed, or the need to intervene.

Dont forget, it was known that Koresh went to town regularly and it was suggested ( by Mclennan cty sheriff if I remember right ) that he be picked up in town, away from the compound. He was vulnerable in town. But they wanted a show of force. They wanted to make a statement.

[Pkripper]

I will never forget seeing the footage of the poor ATF guys getting ambushed nor will I ever forget being at Parkland and being in the hallway of Parkland when they wheeled a few of the survivors in. Ironically I saw Jesse Jackson speak at the Tate lecture series at SMU on that final night.

[systemnt]

Koresh absolutely believed what he was teaching. He was a ****ing nut. (I know people that knew him directly..ran sound for his 'band' and recording equipment. they all say he was a lunatic).
Did he start out that way? like most cult leaders, probably not.. it was a means to get power/control/money ...then he started to believe his own bull****..
(ever notice how many of these cults always seem to end with the leader needing to satisfy their own sexual needs ?
Hard to name one that didnt.)

i digress, .. make no mistake ..he was straight up looney tunes.

[miket]

Lots of innocent people got murdered on both sides. The bureaucrats who orchestrated the fiasco got promotions and raises. Same old song and dance.

Somebody was paying attention.. Nailed it..

Yep. They sent good men in KNOWING the davidians had illegal full auto rifles. Sacrificed for a show, to make a point. May the agents killed rest in peace.

[Pkripper]

Hindsight is 20/20 but my gosh that was some really poor tactical planning and I would guess that is a case study for law enforcement across the land on what not to do.

[PondPopper]

Koresh absolutely believed what he was teaching. He was a ****ing nut. (I know people that knew him directly..ran sound for his 'band' and recording equipment. they all say he was a lunatic).
Did he start out that way? like most cult leaders, probably not.. it was a means to get power/control/money ...then he started to believe his own bull****..
(ever notice how many of these cults always seem to end with the leader needing to satisfy their own sexual needs ?
Hard to name one that didnt.)

i digress, .. make no mistake ..he was straight up looney tunes.

Sounds like a lot of folks in our government... Maybe even the president at that time. Hmm..
Power, money and sex.. Scandal after scandal coming out of DC..